Discussion:
Blood Test Results, Questions
(too old to reply)
Dana©
2004-10-05 21:25:03 UTC
Permalink
Maybe you remember that I was having a fasting blood
test not long ago. Well I have received the results.

I have a rough draft and for the exact numbers I will have to phone
back and request it. :(

But, from the results where I received more than a check mark saying
it was within healthy range, I have these:

Cholesterol: 203 (199)

HDL: 68 (35>)
LDL: 88 (<100)

Triglycerides: 234 (<150)

Potassium: 4.5 (3.7/5.2)

Blood Sugar: 132


My question is, if my LDL and HDL levels are good, how can my total
cholesterol be high?

Everything else was within normal range, but I don't know the exact
numbers, all they gave was a check mark.

Any ideas about the cholesterol?

Dana
"Courage in women is often mistaken for insanity."
Unknown
Tiger Lily
2004-10-05 21:45:19 UTC
Permalink
look at your triglicerides.... they are thru the roof

this is 'statin med time to get the trigs level down

read up on metabolic syndrome X that applies to t2
diabetics

sorry
kate
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Post by Dana©
Maybe you remember that I was having a fasting blood
test not long ago. Well I have received the results.
I have a rough draft and for the exact numbers I will have to phone
back and request it. :(
But, from the results where I received more than a check mark saying
Cholesterol: 203 (199)
HDL: 68 (35>)
LDL: 88 (<100)
Triglycerides: 234 (<150)
Potassium: 4.5 (3.7/5.2)
Blood Sugar: 132
My question is, if my LDL and HDL levels are good, how can my total
cholesterol be high?
Everything else was within normal range, but I don't know the exact
numbers, all they gave was a check mark.
Any ideas about the cholesterol?
Dana
"Courage in women is often mistaken for insanity."
Unknown
Poorboy
2004-10-05 21:56:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiger Lily
look at your triglicerides.... they are thru the roof
this is 'statin med time to get the trigs level down
read up on metabolic syndrome X that applies to t2
diabetics
sorry
kate
how about bringing down her BG levels first (before trying a statin). looks
like her fasting level was 132 .... most likely if they bring their BG down,
their trigs will also fall.


--
poorboy

age 39 t2 diagnosed 4/2003
D & E w/ 7.5 mg actos
Sleepyman
2004-10-09 07:11:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Poorboy
Post by Tiger Lily
look at your triglicerides.... they are thru the roof
this is 'statin med time to get the trigs level down
read up on metabolic syndrome X that applies to t2
diabetics
sorry
kate
how about bringing down her BG levels first (before trying a statin). looks
like her fasting level was 132 .... most likely if they bring their BG down,
their trigs will also fall.
Can't say that Bgs and lipids have a definate connection. Hows this
for an example.

Oct. 2002

A1c - 4.8
TChol - 185
HDL - 21
LDL - 71
Tgl - 814 yes 814, and that was a 400pt drop in previous 3 months.
No Lie


Sleepy

__________________________________________________
If you think nobody cares, try missing a couple of
payments.
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Poorboy
2004-10-09 21:07:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sleepyman
Can't say that Bgs and lipids have a definate connection. Hows this
for an example.
Oct. 2002
A1c - 4.8
TChol - 185
HDL - 21
LDL - 71
Tgl - 814 yes 814, and that was a 400pt drop in previous 3 months.
No Lie
Sleepy
hi sleepy,

wow - i have never seen a number that high with such a low a1c. i'll bet
that you have an incredible amount of insulin resistance ? have you ever had
it measured ? i know that you are on insulin but, do you take any
medications to help with the insulin resistance ? how about exercise ?

sorry about all the questions - i am just curious. i am still able to
control this disease by diet, lots of exercise and a pinch of actos :)


--
poorboy

age 39 t2 diagnosed 4/2003
D & E w/ 7.5 mg actos
Sleepyman
2004-10-10 08:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Poorboy
Post by Sleepyman
Can't say that Bgs and lipids have a definate connection. Hows this
for an example.
Oct. 2002
A1c - 4.8
TChol - 185
HDL - 21
LDL - 71
Tgl - 814 yes 814, and that was a 400pt drop in previous 3 months.
No Lie
Sleepy
hi sleepy,
wow - i have never seen a number that high with such a low a1c. i'll bet
that you have an incredible amount of insulin resistance ? have you ever had
it measured ? i know that you are on insulin but, do you take any
medications to help with the insulin resistance ? how about exercise ?
sorry about all the questions - i am just curious. i am still able to
control this disease by diet, lots of exercise and a pinch of actos :)
Yes my IR is incredible. No I have never had it measured on it's own,
because all my blood readings going back quite a while, and all my
reactions to things, all point directly in that direction. Plus I need
to shoot relatively massive doses of insulin to obtain the results I
am looking for. As for other meds, I am ramping up my Metformin again
after having to quit it for a few months due to returning side
effects, only up to 1000mg right now, but I see my PCP this week, so I
think we will up the dose. I still take 45mg Actos, and I used to take
20mg Glyburide until I started using fast acting insulin. My control
just went right down the toilet all of a sudden. My diet is good, and
due to some physical limitations, I don't exercise enough, but I
picked up the idea from Julie to use hand weights when sitting down, I
still ride the exercise bike when it is not being used as to hang
clothes on, and I walk when I can.


Sleepy

__________________________________________________
If you think nobody cares, try missing a couple of
payments.
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Susan
2004-10-06 00:54:16 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Tiger Lily
look at your triglicerides.... they are thru the roof
this is 'statin med time to get the trigs level down
Her TGLs are too high, and she's likely not eating as low carb as she ought to
be.

Statins are a last resort, not a first line; they have many severe and lasting
ill effects on many people. How can you recommend them without knowing what
she's been eating?

Susan
Ignoramus13176
2004-10-06 13:53:50 UTC
Permalink
I brought my triglycerides down by eating less, no sweets and junk,
losing weight and exercising.

i
Lictor
2004-10-06 14:42:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ignoramus13176
I brought my triglycerides down by eating less, no sweets and junk,
losing weight and exercising.
Same here. They drop from around 250 to 125 at last reading merely by
losing weight and exercising moderately, I did not particularly cut
specific food groups, though weight loss certainly made me cut overall
amounts.
Triglycerides move very fast, taking statins *only* for triglycerides is
crazy. Then, LDL moves slower, and HDL moves at a crawl. Both her LDL
and HDL are good or very good. If she lowers her BG, the triglycerides
should follow almost mechanically, and then the TC (and VLDL) will
follow the triglycerides slowly.
If people like her have to take statins, I'm afraid 99% of the
population should be put on statins too... Maybe they should do what
they did for fluor and add statins to tap water...
Ignoramus13176
2004-10-06 14:53:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lictor
Post by Ignoramus13176
I brought my triglycerides down by eating less, no sweets and junk,
losing weight and exercising.
Same here. They drop from around 250 to 125 at last reading merely by
losing weight and exercising moderately, I did not particularly cut
specific food groups, though weight loss certainly made me cut overall
amounts.
Most outstanding! I am happy for you...

Mine dropped from 207 to 83 over one year. It included being obese and
eating garbage until June, weight loss in June-Sep, and mainly
maintenance in the Sep/Dec. I am greatly curious what will happen to
them this year, with very little extra weight loss, and me eating a
lot of fat. Will retest in January.
Post by Lictor
Triglycerides move very fast, taking statins *only* for triglycerides is
crazy. Then, LDL moves slower, and HDL moves at a crawl. Both her LDL
and HDL are good or very good. If she lowers her BG, the triglycerides
should follow almost mechanically, and then the TC (and VLDL) will
follow the triglycerides slowly.
If people like her have to take statins, I'm afraid 99% of the
population should be put on statins too... Maybe they should do what
they did for fluor and add statins to tap water...
As far as I understand, trigs for people with diabetic tendencies, are
pretty much a function of how many carbs they eat... Am I mistaken?

i
Lictor
2004-10-06 15:53:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ignoramus13176
Mine dropped from 207 to 83 over one year. It included being obese and
eating garbage until June, weight loss in June-Sep, and mainly
maintenance in the Sep/Dec. I am greatly curious what will happen to
them this year, with very little extra weight loss, and me eating a
lot of fat. Will retest in January.
I have been on a maintainance curve (or call that a stall) for a while
now, and that was indeed one of my worries. But the result came back
either stable (total cholesterol, LDL, triglycerides) or still improving
(A1c, creatinin, HDL). It seems its not as much the reduced food intake
as the body fat% that helps there.
Post by Ignoramus13176
As far as I understand, trigs for people with diabetic tendencies, are
pretty much a function of how many carbs they eat... Am I mistaken?
I think it's one of the cases where you think two things are related,
where in fact they both depends from a third one. Triglycerides are a
marker of insulin resistance (well, trig/HDL actually), and blood sugar
spikes are also a function of IR (and broken pancreas). Triglycerides
seem to behave like glucose; they spike post-prandial, and then they
decrease - or do not, but they seem to be on a much less strict control
than BG values, TG spikes seem to last longer.
As my as my understanding goes, triglycerides are linked to carb intake,
but carbs alone don't cause high TG. IR does. People with IR but no
diabete (i.e. rock solid pancreas) have high TG and low HDL. If you keep
the carbs constant but reduce the other IR factors (body fat%, lack of
exercise...), the TG will also go down. If you lower the carbs, you will
spike less, and this also seems to reduce IR. Likewise, when you try to
lower your BG, you usually lower your IR in the process (exercising,
losing weight, taking IR lowering drugs, lowering average BG inducing
increased insulin sensitivity...), and TG level goes down as a result.
Of course, some high TG are probably genetic too, much like cholesterol.
Ignoramus13176
2004-10-06 16:30:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lictor
Post by Ignoramus13176
Mine dropped from 207 to 83 over one year. It included being obese and
eating garbage until June, weight loss in June-Sep, and mainly
maintenance in the Sep/Dec. I am greatly curious what will happen to
them this year, with very little extra weight loss, and me eating a
lot of fat. Will retest in January.
I have been on a maintainance curve (or call that a stall) for a while
now, and that was indeed one of my worries. But the result came back
either stable (total cholesterol, LDL, triglycerides) or still improving
(A1c, creatinin, HDL). It seems its not as much the reduced food intake
as the body fat% that helps there.
That's nice to hear and relieving. I do not know what is the
significance of creatinine.
Post by Lictor
Post by Ignoramus13176
As far as I understand, trigs for people with diabetic tendencies, are
pretty much a function of how many carbs they eat... Am I mistaken?
I think it's one of the cases where you think two things are related,
where in fact they both depends from a third one. Triglycerides are a
marker of insulin resistance (well, trig/HDL actually), and blood sugar
spikes are also a function of IR (and broken pancreas). Triglycerides
seem to behave like glucose; they spike post-prandial, and then they
decrease - or do not, but they seem to be on a much less strict control
than BG values, TG spikes seem to last longer.
interesting. By the way, I qualified my statement as applicable for
"people with diabetic tendencies".
Post by Lictor
As my as my understanding goes, triglycerides are linked to carb intake,
but carbs alone don't cause high TG. IR does.
A combination of two...

For example, I am still, probably, IR, but my trigs are down due to
serious cutdown on junk carbs.

i
Lictor
2004-10-06 17:14:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ignoramus13176
That's nice to hear and relieving. I do not know what is the
significance of creatinine.
Creatinin is a protein that the kidney have to get out of the
bloodstream. So, the amount of creatinin in your blood is plugged in a
formula (featuring weight, sex and age IIRC) to calculate how well your
kidney work. This is the basic way to assess if you have a kidney
problem and/or if your kidney are overworked.
I moved from stuck to the upper limit to right in the middle of the
range, which *is* good news. Even if I plug my old weight in the
formula, it still shows improvement.
Post by Ignoramus13176
For example, I am still, probably, IR, but my trigs are down due to
serious cutdown on junk carbs.
If you dropped a lot of weight, it is quite possible that you are less
IR than before. Remember that IR is not an on/off thing. If someone was
not IR at all, he would be dead within minutes from massive
hypoglycemia. IR is a whole spectrum, from normal to borderline to way
too high - though "IR" usually refers to people above the normal range.
When you lost weight, you moved down that spectrum, by an amount that is
related to several parameters, probably including genetics and sex (some
people get dramatic effects from minimal weight loss, others barely see
a difference, and some obeses are not IR while some slim people are).
Furthermore, your average BG went down, and this also reduces IR.
Even if you're still IR (where is your TG/HDL ratio?), you're probably a
lot less so than you were before your weight loss. For instance, my
TG/HDL is still too high at 2.8 (damn HDL going up way too slow, only
bumped by +20 so far), but it's still a huge improvement over my
starting value of 6.3! I would say my IR did go down, even though it's
still above the norm.
bj
2004-10-06 17:57:21 UTC
Permalink
Creatinin is a protein that the kidney have to get out of the bloodstream.
So, the amount of creatinin in your blood is plugged in a formula
(featuring weight, sex and age IIRC) to calculate how well your kidney
work. This is the basic way to assess if you have a kidney problem and/or
if your kidney are overworked.
I moved from stuck to the upper limit to right in the middle of the range,
which *is* good news. Even if I plug my old weight in the formula, it
still shows improvement.
What's the formula?
bj
Lictor
2004-10-06 18:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by bj
What's the formula?
That's Creatinin clearance, there are several formulas around, but the
most common is Cockcroft-Gault : ((140-age) * mass in kg)/(72 * plasma
creatinin) * [1 if male | 0.85 if female].
Creatinin is used rather than anything else, because the body produces
naturally all the time and it is filtered passively by the kidneys, so
it's a good marker of how well they're doing their job. This can be used
to establish the level of a kidney disease, or when you're dosing a drug
according to how fast it will leave the body.
The formula is known to break appart at extreme weights and/or for
athletes (because they produce more creatinin than the norm, it's often
adviced not to exercise the day before a creatinin test.

http://www.intmed.mcw.edu/clincalc/creatinine.html
Alan
2004-10-06 21:50:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lictor
Post by bj
What's the formula?
That's Creatinin clearance, there are several formulas around, but the
most common is Cockcroft-Gault : ((140-age) * mass in kg)/(72 * plasma
creatinin) * [1 if male | 0.85 if female].
Creatinin is used rather than anything else, because the body produces
naturally all the time and it is filtered passively by the kidneys, so
it's a good marker of how well they're doing their job. This can be used
to establish the level of a kidney disease, or when you're dosing a drug
according to how fast it will leave the body.
The formula is known to break appart at extreme weights and/or for
athletes (because they produce more creatinin than the norm, it's often
adviced not to exercise the day before a creatinin test.
http://www.intmed.mcw.edu/clincalc/creatinine.html
Thanks Lictor, very interesting.

I'd never heard of that. To use that calculator from the mmol parts of
the world, to convert from umol (micro moles) to mg/dl multiply by 88.4.

Do you know what are good and bad numbers?


Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Lictor
2004-10-08 19:17:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan
I'd never heard of that. To use that calculator from the mmol parts of
the world, to convert from umol (micro moles) to mg/dl multiply by 88.4.
Do you know what are good and bad numbers?
On an adult with 1.73 m^2 of body surface, the range is 80-120 ml / min.
30-80 is moderate kidney insuficiency
15-30 is severe
Bellow 15 means dyalisis.

For diabetics, the micro-albuminuria is supposed to give a more advanced
diagnosis. However, both measure difference things. The
micro-albuminuria is about "leaks" from your kidneys, while the
clearance is about how good your kidneys are at doing their job. So it's
possible that the creatinine clearance might diagnose some conditions
that the micro-albuminuria won't. Anyway, checking from time to time
that your kidneys are indeed doing what they are meant for does not hurt. ;)

You can directly measure the clearance without a formula, but it's very
impractical (needs to collect urine for 24 hours *and* keep it
refrigerated all the while), so the formula is used most of the time.
Sleepyman
2004-10-09 10:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lictor
Post by Alan
I'd never heard of that. To use that calculator from the mmol parts of
the world, to convert from umol (micro moles) to mg/dl multiply by 88.4.
Do you know what are good and bad numbers?
On an adult with 1.73 m^2 of body surface, the range is 80-120 ml / min.
30-80 is moderate kidney insuficiency
15-30 is severe
Bellow 15 means dyalisis.
For diabetics, the micro-albuminuria is supposed to give a more advanced
diagnosis. However, both measure difference things. The
micro-albuminuria is about "leaks" from your kidneys, while the
clearance is about how good your kidneys are at doing their job. So it's
possible that the creatinine clearance might diagnose some conditions
that the micro-albuminuria won't. Anyway, checking from time to time
that your kidneys are indeed doing what they are meant for does not hurt. ;)
You can directly measure the clearance without a formula, but it's very
impractical (needs to collect urine for 24 hours *and* keep it
refrigerated all the while), so the formula is used most of the time.
Clearance measures what you are putting out in urine. micro is a blood
test.


Sleepy

__________________________________________________
If you think nobody cares, try missing a couple of
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Lictor
2004-10-09 14:32:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sleepyman
Clearance measures what you are putting out in urine. micro is a blood
test.
Mmm... The lab takes a blood sample to get my creatinin level (which you
use to calculate the clearance), and asked me a sample of urine for my
micro (which is a screening before doing a full 24 hours sample).
I think you can get both creatinin and albumin level from both urine and
blood, except they don't have the same meaning then.
Sleepyman
2004-10-10 07:46:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lictor
Post by Sleepyman
Clearance measures what you are putting out in urine. micro is a blood
test.
Mmm... The lab takes a blood sample to get my creatinin level (which you
use to calculate the clearance), and asked me a sample of urine for my
micro (which is a screening before doing a full 24 hours sample).
I think you can get both creatinin and albumin level from both urine and
blood, except they don't have the same meaning then.
With me, I get a creatinine, and an albumin level each time I have my
blood tested. When I have my urinalysis done, my Microalbumin level,
MicroAlbumin /Creatinine ratio, and my Creatinine random are done
Somewhere in my notes I put down Creatinine Random as = to Creatinine
Clearance. I will have to delve deeply to find the source. I blew it
where the microalbumin level came from.


Sleepy

__________________________________________________
If you think nobody cares, try missing a couple of
payments.
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bj
2004-10-09 17:07:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sleepyman
Post by Lictor
For diabetics, the micro-albuminuria is supposed to give a more advanced
diagnosis. However, both measure difference things. The
micro-albuminuria is about "leaks" from your kidneys, while the
clearance is about how good your kidneys are at doing their job. So it's
possible that the creatinine clearance might diagnose some conditions
that the micro-albuminuria won't. Anyway, checking from time to time
that your kidneys are indeed doing what they are meant for does not hurt. ;)
Clearance measures what you are putting out in urine. micro is a blood
test.
If you mean microabuminuria, it is a urine test.
bj
Sleepyman
2004-10-10 07:47:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by bj
Post by Sleepyman
Post by Lictor
For diabetics, the micro-albuminuria is supposed to give a more advanced
diagnosis. However, both measure difference things. The
micro-albuminuria is about "leaks" from your kidneys, while the
clearance is about how good your kidneys are at doing their job. So it's
possible that the creatinine clearance might diagnose some conditions
that the micro-albuminuria won't. Anyway, checking from time to time
that your kidneys are indeed doing what they are meant for does not hurt. ;)
Clearance measures what you are putting out in urine. micro is a blood
test.
If you mean microabuminuria, it is a urine test.
bj
Actualy I was was wrong about the microalbumin level. Is that the same
thing?



Sleepy

__________________________________________________
If you think nobody cares, try missing a couple of
payments.
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bj
2004-10-07 20:52:23 UTC
Permalink
Thanks.

I'll have to figure it out when I get my latest lab results -- should be
arriving soon, I know they're "in" but the doctor's fax & my fax won't talk
to each other more than 3 pages!
At least I got the lipids, which I was really waiting for because of LDL (it
went down again, it seems to wave up & down around 100 sometimes) & that was
OK, & the doctor didn't call about anything urgent so everything else
probably is too.
bj
Post by Lictor
Post by bj
What's the formula?
That's Creatinin clearance, there are several formulas around, but the
most common is Cockcroft-Gault : ((140-age) * mass in kg)/(72 * plasma
creatinin) * [1 if male | 0.85 if female].
Boelkowj
2004-10-07 03:37:30 UTC
Permalink
Ignoramus: I agree that TGL levels change very fast with a change in diet. No
wine and no bread/starch and you will see bog time reductions.

larry
Alan
2004-10-07 04:25:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boelkowj
Ignoramus: I agree that TGL levels change very fast with a change in diet. No
wine and no bread/starch and you will see bog time reductions.
larry
No wine? Could you clarify that please? I attribute my good HDL and low
trigs in part to my consumption of a half-bottle of red daily.


Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
M***@AOL.com
2004-10-07 14:03:00 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:25:21 +1000, Alan
Post by Alan
Post by Boelkowj
Ignoramus: I agree that TGL levels change very fast with a change in diet. No
wine and no bread/starch and you will see bog time reductions.
larry
No wine? Could you clarify that please? I attribute my good HDL and low
trigs in part to my consumption of a half-bottle of red daily.
Do you consume red blood? Damn vampire. You should party with guy,
both are loonies.
Lictor
2004-10-08 19:21:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan
No wine? Could you clarify that please? I attribute my good HDL and low
trigs in part to my consumption of a half-bottle of red daily.
There's a threshold with wine. When you look at statistics on CVD, you
have a U shape, with moderate drinkers followed by non-drinkers followed
by heavy drinkers.
A moderate drinker will indeed improve his numbers, but "heavy drinking"
(which can happen as early as 2 glasses a day for a petite woman) will
shoot TG through the roof. As a man, you're able to stand more alcohol
than a woman would. If you're tall and muscular, half a bottle might
still qualify you as a moderate drinker, especially if you don't drink
all of it in a single meal. But for a woman, that would be way too much.
John38
2004-10-06 16:40:00 UTC
Permalink
If she lowers her BG, the triglycerides should follow almost mechanically, and
then the TC (and VLDL) will follow the triglycerides slowly.
Not necessarily, certainly not with me... I was running a hb1ac of 5.5%
until the last one. That was achieved 5 months after dx, the trigs were
way high then, they are way high now.

I'd be interested in hearing of any way I can lower trigs, given that
I'm on a fibrate, I 0-starch (only carbs come from veggies like
broccoli), and I exercise as much as time will allow. I'm 20kg from
ideal weight though, and shifting the weight is a lot tougher than what
it once was :(
--
John38 : LADA, so it seems : last Hb1Ac = 6.9%
Lictor
2004-10-06 17:24:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by John38
I'd be interested in hearing of any way I can lower trigs, given that
I'm on a fibrate, I 0-starch (only carbs come from veggies like
broccoli), and I exercise as much as time will allow. I'm 20kg from
ideal weight though, and shifting the weight is a lot tougher than what
it once was :(
I should have added "easy for most people without genetic TG". Maybe you
do have a genetic form of high TG or maybe your fat intakes do up your TG.
In contrast, I only had to start exercising (walking 3-5 times a week)
and dropping some weight to have my TG back in the normal norm within
the month. I did not cut carbs or anything, and still don't do, just
overall portion size (well, this did reduce carbs indirectly). Most
people seem to experience a similar pattern, where going from totally
sedentary to exercising and losing a modest amount of weight gives
disproportionnally high results. Cholesterol seems much harder to
control, though diet/exercise still works for many. That's why the first
indication is to try non-drug approaches and see how they work - and for
most people it does work, at least partly.
Indeed, if you have a genetic form of hyperlipidemia, nothing short of
drugs will work. I have known very slim people who watched their diet
closely but ran insane levels of cholesterol. I had a friend who had
this problem at 15. Just genetic hypercholesteremia. It seems the same
form exists for TG.
The OP has good cholesterol numbers, so it's not a total dislipidemia.
Statins would not be needed for them. It might be worth trying
alternatives (diet, exercise, other drugs or even time and doing another
check in a couple of months) before putting her on a drug with potential
harmful side effects on a lifetime prescription that we still don't know
anything about the long term (50+ years) effects.
Alan
2004-10-06 22:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lictor
Post by John38
I'd be interested in hearing of any way I can lower trigs, given that
I'm on a fibrate, I 0-starch (only carbs come from veggies like
broccoli), and I exercise as much as time will allow. I'm 20kg from
ideal weight though, and shifting the weight is a lot tougher than what
it once was :(
I should have added "easy for most people without genetic TG". Maybe you
do have a genetic form of high TG or maybe your fat intakes do up your TG.
In contrast, I only had to start exercising (walking 3-5 times a week)
and dropping some weight to have my TG back in the normal norm within
the month. I did not cut carbs or anything, and still don't do, just
overall portion size (well, this did reduce carbs indirectly). Most
people seem to experience a similar pattern, where going from totally
sedentary to exercising and losing a modest amount of weight gives
disproportionnally high results. Cholesterol seems much harder to
control, though diet/exercise still works for many. That's why the first
indication is to try non-drug approaches and see how they work - and for
most people it does work, at least partly.
Indeed, if you have a genetic form of hyperlipidemia, nothing short of
drugs will work. I have known very slim people who watched their diet
closely but ran insane levels of cholesterol. I had a friend who had
this problem at 15. Just genetic hypercholesteremia. It seems the same
form exists for TG.
The OP has good cholesterol numbers, so it's not a total dislipidemia.
Statins would not be needed for them. It might be worth trying
alternatives (diet, exercise, other drugs or even time and doing another
check in a couple of months) before putting her on a drug with potential
harmful side effects on a lifetime prescription that we still don't know
anything about the long term (50+ years) effects.
Hi Lictor

I have the opposite problem. My weight loss and Jennifer's advice led to
dramatic drops in my Trigs, from a peak of 4.7 (416) to 0.9 (80), HDL
went up from 1.0 (39) to 1.5 (58), but LDL only dropped a little from
3.6 (139) to 3.3 (127). I was on lipitor 20 all that time.

Then, when I experimented for three months by going off the lipitor
there was very little change in everything but my LDL, which jumped to
5.7 (220). Weight, diet and A1c remained the same in that period.

So, even though my Trigs/HDL was still 1.14 in US terms, well under the
3, that was still a lot of LDL and it couldn't all be fluffy, so I went
back on the lipitor.

I tried Polycosanol and Pantethine during the non-lipitor period,
obviously without success.

I'd be interested in comments on those results, or any suggestions from
anyone on other non-statin ways to drop that LDL without damaging the
trigs or HDL.


Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Susan
2004-10-06 22:18:09 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Alan
I tried Polycosanol and Pantethine during the non-lipitor period,
obviously without success.
Alan, am I misremembering, or did you say that pantethine is not available in
your part of the world? B5 is not the same pantethine, and isn't found to have
the same dramatic lipid lowering results.

I took 450mg of pantethine 2X per day for 3 mos, and my LDL dropped 70 pts, and
my HDL went up 10 points, to my all time high of 70 (my HDL had been 34 for
about 10 years before low carb).

I wonder, too, if measuring the size of your LDL particles might be useful. If
they're large and fluffy (which your low TGLs suggest they might be) then it's
less of a worry than having a lot of VLDL.

Susan
Alan
2004-10-07 03:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Alan
I tried Polycosanol and Pantethine during the non-lipitor period,
obviously without success.
Alan, am I misremembering, or did you say that pantethine is not available in
your part of the world? B5 is not the same pantethine, and isn't found to have
the same dramatic lipid lowering results.
I took 450mg of pantethine 2X per day for 3 mos, and my LDL dropped 70 pts, and
my HDL went up 10 points, to my all time high of 70 (my HDL had been 34 for
about 10 years before low carb).
I wonder, too, if measuring the size of your LDL particles might be useful. If
they're large and fluffy (which your low TGLs suggest they might be) then it's
less of a worry than having a lot of VLDL.
Susan
Thanks Susan

The label claims it is Pantothenic acid (250mg), and also is labelled as
Vitamin B5. What exactly should I be asking for?

Each Policosanol gelcap contained:
Policosanol 10 mg
Natural Salmon Oil 318 mg

Neither supplement seemed to have any noticeable effect on any of my
various blood tests. So I went back on the lipitor 20 (doc wanted me to
go on the 40). I'll probably get a new batch of tests later this month.

I'll discuss a specific test for LDL particle size - thanks.


Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Susan
2004-10-12 15:24:15 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Alan
The label claims it is Pantothenic acid (250mg), and also is labelled as
Vitamin B5. What exactly should I be asking for?
Not pantothenic acid, which is B5. The research and my results came with
pantethine. 450mg, two times per day.

IIRC, you weren't able to get this stuff on your side of the bouncing ball.
Post by Alan
Policosanol 10 mg
Natural Salmon Oil 318 mg
I haven't tried this one, and now with my fabulous lipids, I no longer need
another supplement added to pantethine. :-)
Post by Alan
Neither supplement seemed to have any noticeable effect on any of my
various blood tests. So I went back on the lipitor 20 (doc wanted me to
go on the 40). I'll probably get a new batch of tests later this month.
If you can buy some overseas pantethine and try 900 mg per day in divided
doses, I'm betting you'll see significant if not dramatic results.

Susan
John38
2004-10-06 23:14:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi Lictor, thanks for replying
Post by Lictor
Post by John38
I'd be interested in hearing of any way I can lower trigs, given that
I'm on a fibrate, I 0-starch (only carbs come from veggies like
broccoli), and I exercise as much as time will allow. I'm 20kg from
ideal weight though, and shifting the weight is a lot tougher than what
it once was :(
I should have added "easy for most people without genetic TG". Maybe you
do have a genetic form of high TG or maybe your fat intakes do up your TG.
As I understand it, triglycerides are generated after carb input, but my
understanding of triglycerides is weak. Does fat intake have an effect?
Post by Lictor
In contrast, I only had to start exercising (walking 3-5 times a week)
and dropping some weight to have my TG back in the normal norm within
the month. I did not cut carbs or anything, and still don't do, just
overall portion size (well, this did reduce carbs indirectly). Most
people seem to experience a similar pattern, where going from totally
sedentary to exercising and losing a modest amount of weight gives
disproportionnally high results.
I cycle to work 2 miles in each direction every day. My laziness in
getting out of bed ensures I've worked up a sweat by the time I get
there. Sometimes I have to really cane it to avoid being late :)
Post by Lictor
Cholesterol seems much harder to
control, though diet/exercise still works for many. That's why the first
indication is to try non-drug approaches and see how they work - and for
most people it does work, at least partly.
Indeed, if you have a genetic form of hyperlipidemia, nothing short of
drugs will work. I have known very slim people who watched their diet
closely but ran insane levels of cholesterol. I had a friend who had
this problem at 15. Just genetic hypercholesteremia. It seems the same
form exists for TG.
Last 3 HDL #s for me were 1.2 2.mumble and 1.75
Often LDL cant be calculated because total chol is over 4.5. My trig
levels are stratospheric (over 5, the last one). I think these
measurements are mmol/l

Gawd knows if its genetic. There is no heart attack history in my
family, for several generations. Maybe I'm a mutant. Thanks again for
your input.
--
John38 : LADA, so it seems : last Hb1Ac = 6.9%
Lictor
2004-10-08 19:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by John38
As I understand it, triglycerides are generated after carb input, but my
understanding of triglycerides is weak. Does fat intake have an effect?
That was my impression too, but if you're low carbing, they're obviously
coming from "somewhere" else. ;) On the other hand, I'm not low
carbing, yet my numbers went down pretty fast. It seems other things can
increase TG, such as alcohol or smoking, or just being fat. Being
insulin resistant certainly does not help either.
But genetics forms can be pretty nasty. I read on some French board of a
couple of pregnant women shooting up to 90 mmol/l and then getting a
pancreatis (3 weeks in coma). Nasty. On of these report being 1m58 for
49kg, so it's not even obesity related.
Post by John38
Gawd knows if its genetic. There is no heart attack history in my
family, for several generations. Maybe I'm a mutant. Thanks again for
your input.
If you look at various statistics, cholesterol and TG levels do not
correlate so well with CVD. For instance, French people tend to have
higher cholesterol than Americans, but they nevertheless have one of the
lowest rate of heart attacks in the western world. At the opposite end
of the spectrum, Russians have very low cholesterol (probably due to
liver intoxication) and high CVD rates. Here again, the complexity is
probably very high. The exact type of cholesterol might matter. Factors
can be compounded, with enough goods offsetting cholesterol levels.
Maybe your familly has a history of low CVD rates *and* high TG, but
just has good enough genetics to offset that. Or maybe they happen to
have the "good" shape of LDL. Or they have high HDL to protect them.
Alan
2004-10-05 22:08:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dana©
Maybe you remember that I was having a fasting blood
test not long ago. Well I have received the results.
I have a rough draft and for the exact numbers I will have to phone
back and request it. :(
But, from the results where I received more than a check mark saying
Cholesterol: 203 (199)
HDL: 68 (35>)
LDL: 88 (<100)
Triglycerides: 234 (<150)
Potassium: 4.5 (3.7/5.2)
Blood Sugar: 132
My question is, if my LDL and HDL levels are good, how can my total
cholesterol be high?
Everything else was within normal range, but I don't know the exact
numbers, all they gave was a check mark.
Any ideas about the cholesterol?
Dana
"Courage in women is often mistaken for insanity."
Unknown
Hi Dana,

The answer is in that high triglycerides figure. To my lay view, your
HDL and LDL are both excellent, but where it falls down is the trigs:

Total Cholesterol = HDL(68)+LDL(88)+Trigs/5 (46.8) = 202.8

Has the doc given any advice on what to do to get them down? If not
you'd better ask.

Your Trigs/HDL is 3.44 and the recommendations are to get that under 3.
In fact, if you could get the trigs down your results would be
excellent.

The BGs are a little high, but that's a seperate subject (although that
trigs/HDL ratio is also an indication of insulin resistance) - are they
improving? I always test higher at the doc's office because it's after 9
am and I usually test at 6 am at home. I'm one of those with a slow rise
if I fast through the morning.

And get those full printed results for your own records.


Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Tiger Lily
2004-10-05 22:31:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan
The BGs are a little high, but that's a seperate subject (although that
trigs/HDL ratio is also an indication of insulin resistance) - are they
improving? I always test higher at the doc's office because it's after 9
am and I usually test at 6 am at home. I'm one of those with a slow rise
if I fast through the morning.
And get those full printed results for your own records.
Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Alan...... i can test 4.5 at home...... around 7am and get the actual labs
by 9am and come in at anywhere between 8 and 12........ simply because i
didn't 'break the fast'

sigh...... i prefer when i don't have to do a fasting spot bg because THAT
one will be in the 'normal range'

my fasting bg's are always too high because of the dawn effect.......

what do you do?
kate
--
Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet
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Alan
2004-10-05 23:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiger Lily
Post by Alan
The BGs are a little high, but that's a seperate subject (although that
trigs/HDL ratio is also an indication of insulin resistance) - are they
improving? I always test higher at the doc's office because it's after 9
am and I usually test at 6 am at home. I'm one of those with a slow rise
if I fast through the morning.
And get those full printed results for your own records.
Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Alan...... i can test 4.5 at home...... around 7am and get the actual labs
by 9am and come in at anywhere between 8 and 12........ simply because i
didn't 'break the fast'
sigh...... i prefer when i don't have to do a fasting spot bg because THAT
one will be in the 'normal range'
my fasting bg's are always too high because of the dawn effect.......
what do you do?
kate
Hi Kate

Sounds just like me, but I don't have quite as dramatic a rise. I'm more
likely to be between 5 and 6 at dawn and rise to somewhere between 7 and
8 by 9 or 10 am. If I have my zero-carb breakfast it's always under 7.
I've discussed it with my doc and showed him my records of home numbers
on the same day as the lab tests. I also take a snack of a slice of
cheese and a cracker with me to eat as soon as I've finished with the
vampire.

He is now aware of "dawn effect", and Jennifer's advice (test,test,test,
with a complimentary copy), and these ngs. I'd better be careful in case
he's lurking:-)

It'll really be a pain when he moves on (as all the country doctors seem
to do these days, back to the lucrative city) and I have to train a new
one:-) I'm not impressed with his new sidekick who is straight from the
sub-continent.


Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Tiger Lily
2004-10-05 23:28:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan
Hi Kate
Sounds just like me, but I don't have quite as dramatic a rise. I'm more
likely to be between 5 and 6 at dawn and rise to somewhere between 7 and
8 by 9 or 10 am. If I have my zero-carb breakfast it's always under 7.
I've discussed it with my doc and showed him my records of home numbers
on the same day as the lab tests. I also take a snack of a slice of
cheese and a cracker with me to eat as soon as I've finished with the
vampire.
oh yeah.... i have to eat right away too..... and i just shoot and eat right
in the little 'lab booth' where they draw your blood..... they think i'm
nuts.... that's fine with me (the eating is in the car... the shooting is in
a semi-private location)
Post by Alan
He is now aware of "dawn effect", and Jennifer's advice (test,test,test,
with a complimentary copy), and these ngs. I'd better be careful in case
he's lurking:-)'
tee hee.... hope he sends his motivated patients to visit
Post by Alan
It'll really be a pain when he moves on (as all the country doctors seem
to do these days, back to the lucrative city) and I have to train a new
one:-) I'm not impressed with his new sidekick who is straight from the
sub-continent.
oh ...... i've gone thru 4 Dr's in 6 years.... it's a real PITA to train a
new Dr that YOU are the head of your medical team and YES i need at LEAST 4
strips a day Rx'd to me

sigh
what do you do?

my endo is close to retirement..... THAT one i don't look forward to
changing... he's been a gem :-)

kate
--
Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet
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More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
oldal4865
2004-10-06 00:41:46 UTC
Permalink
. . .(snip). .
Alan...... i can test 4.5 at home...... around 7am and get the actual labs
by 9am and come in at anywhere between 8 and 12........ simply because i
didn't 'break the fast'
sigh...... i prefer when i don't have to do a fasting spot bg because THAT
one will be in the 'normal range'
my fasting bg's are always too high because of the dawn effect.......
what do you do?
kate
This is a different Alan chiming in. . . .I use a third shot of
Ultralente at 5 pm

10 units Ultralente at 7am and 7 units at 9 pm to handle the over-all Basal,
then 5 units at 5 pm to fight the dawn effect.

A little foul up and I see a 5.5 jump between 4 am and 7 am.

Do you think a fierce Dawn Effect is actually a sign of intelligence and/or
high moral integrity?

Regards
Old Al
Tiger Lily
2004-10-06 00:57:44 UTC
Permalink
"oldal4865".com> wrote in message .de...
Post by oldal4865
This is a different Alan chiming in. . . .I use a third shot of
Ultralente at 5 pm
10 units Ultralente at 7am and 7 units at 9 pm to handle the over-all Basal,
then 5 units at 5 pm to fight the dawn effect.
A little foul up and I see a 5.5 jump between 4 am and 7 am.
Do you think a fierce Dawn Effect is actually a sign of intelligence and/or
high moral integrity?
Regards
Old Al
hmmmmm...... interesting approach on the UL dose..... if i break the fast,
i'm good for the day with my am breakfast and Humalog shot...... i'll have
to try squeaking in an extra shot of UL the day before a fasting test and
drop the bed time UL a touch to not have too much insulin on board

i think this is a fine example of our integrity :-)
Alan
2004-10-06 01:16:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by oldal4865
Do you think a fierce Dawn Effect is actually a sign of intelligence and/or
high moral integrity?
Regards
Old Al
Of course Al - although in that case you're obviously much more
intelligent than I. Such things are also related to the numbers of "A's"
in your name and the position of the planets at the time of your
great-grandmother's birth.


Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Hahabogus
2004-10-06 10:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan
Post by oldal4865
Do you think a fierce Dawn Effect is actually a sign of intelligence
and/or high moral integrity?
Regards
Old Al
Of course Al - although in that case you're obviously much more
intelligent than I. Such things are also related to the numbers of
"A's" in your name and the position of the planets at the time of your
great-grandmother's birth.
Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
First or last name?...I'm asking cause there were planets when my great
granny was born.
--
Starchless in Manitoba.
Alan
2004-10-06 12:53:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hahabogus
Post by Alan
Post by oldal4865
Do you think a fierce Dawn Effect is actually a sign of intelligence
and/or high moral integrity?
Regards
Old Al
Of course Al - although in that case you're obviously much more
intelligent than I. Such things are also related to the numbers of
"A's" in your name and the position of the planets at the time of your
great-grandmother's birth.
Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
First or last name?...I'm asking cause there were planets when my great
granny was born.
First for Alan and I (although I've got another in the last:-) Of course
nicks also count, Haha.

I would hope there were planets for your great granny; unless she was
born before the big bang.

Cheers, Alan
--
Hahabogus
2004-10-06 21:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan
I would hope there were planets for your great granny; unless she was
born before the big bang.
Cheers, Alan
--
Great-Great grandpa said something about the earth moving but never
mentioned a noise....She was born before the big bands though.
--
Starchless in Manitoba.
Alan
2004-10-07 03:18:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hahabogus
Post by Alan
I would hope there were planets for your great granny; unless she was
born before the big bang.
Cheers, Alan
--
Great-Great grandpa said something about the earth moving but never
mentioned a noise....She was born before the big bands though.
:-)))
Cheers, Alan
--
Chakolate
2004-10-06 02:29:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by oldal4865
Do you think a fierce Dawn Effect is actually a sign of intelligence
and/or high moral integrity?
I'm perfectly willing to concede that as long as you don't posit that those
who are intelligent and/or possess high moral integrity always have a
fierce Dawn Effect.

BTW, what other types of integrity are there besides moral integrity?

Chakolate, always hungry for knowledge. OK, just always hungry
--
One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do
and always a clever thing to say.
--Will Durant
Alan
2004-10-06 06:42:26 UTC
Permalink
On 6 Oct 2004 02:29:51 GMT, Chakolate
Post by Chakolate
BTW, what other types of integrity are there besides moral integrity?
Chakolate, always hungry for knowledge. OK, just always hungry
Structural integrity. Like Mike Tyson - structurally perfect, morally
unsound.

I just made that up, but it sounds right to me:-)

Cheers, Alan
--
Frank Roy
2004-10-06 15:55:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan
Post by Chakolate
BTW, what other types of integrity are there besides moral integrity?
Chakolate, always hungry for knowledge. OK, just always hungry
Structural integrity. Like Mike Tyson - structurally perfect, morally
unsound.
I just made that up, but it sounds right to me:-)
Ear right. ;) Ask Evander Holyfield.

Frank
Mack©®
2004-10-06 16:19:41 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:42:26 +1000, Alan
Post by Alan
On 6 Oct 2004 02:29:51 GMT, Chakolate
Post by Chakolate
BTW, what other types of integrity are there besides moral integrity?
Chakolate, always hungry for knowledge. OK, just always hungry
Structural integrity. Like Mike Tyson - structurally perfect, morally
unsound.
I just made that up, but it sounds right to me:-)
Cheers, Alan
bad analogy using tyson. broken teeth, scars, a vice even a drunken
drag queen would not want. but we get the idea you were trying to
pass on.

Mâck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."

...Theodore Roosevelt

Have you heard of the NO-CARB Diet for 2004?

NO C-heney
NO A-shcroft
NO R-umsfeld
NO B-ush
And Absolutely NO Rice!
Julie Bove
2004-10-06 00:02:15 UTC
Permalink
"Dana�" <***@ownmail.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

<snip>
Post by Dana©
My question is, if my LDL and HDL levels are good, how can my total
cholesterol be high?
<snip>

Your triglycerides were too high.
--
See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm
oldal4865
2004-10-06 00:46:45 UTC
Permalink
Dana© wrote in message ...
Post by Dana©
Maybe you remember that I was having a fasting blood
test not long ago. Well I have received the results.
I have a rough draft and for the exact numbers I will have to phone
back and request it. :(
But, from the results where I received more than a check mark saying
Cholesterol: 203 (199)
HDL: 68 (35>)
LDL: 88 (<100)
Triglycerides: 234 (<150)
Potassium: 4.5 (3.7/5.2)
Blood Sugar: 132
My question is, if my LDL and HDL levels are good, how can my total
cholesterol be high?
Everything else was within normal range, but I don't know the exact
numbers, all they gave was a check mark.
Any ideas about the cholesterol?
Dana
Your triglycerides are way out of range. Despite that spectacular
HDL number, your trig/HDL ratio is greater than 3.0 which is a sign of high
insulin resistance accompanied by damage to the arteries. Something for
you to start dealing with ASAP.

Metformin is one weapon. Actos, Avandia and Statins also have beneficial
effects. (Metformin is the cheapest and has the least side effects)

Regards
Old Al
Susan
2004-10-06 00:58:14 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Dana©
Any ideas about the cholesterol?
Dana, didn't your HbA1c also drop modestly?

IIRC, you got significant PN relief from taking alpha lipoic acid. If you drop
your carbs truly low, you should see a drop in your TGLs, too.

BTW, fish oil supplements are known to drip TGLs, also, but you have to control
the carbs.

Can you tell us what a typical day's diet is?

Susan
Susan
2004-10-06 01:05:50 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Susan
BTW, fish oil supplements are known to drip TGLs, also
Errr... "drop" TGLs, that is. :-)


Susan
Alan
2004-10-06 02:38:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Susan
BTW, fish oil supplements are known to drip TGLs, also
Errr... "drop" TGLs, that is. :-)
Susan
It did conjure up visions of capsules covered in green fuzz, gradually
dissolving and drip, drip, dripping......

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Susan
2004-10-06 02:46:52 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Alan
It did conjure up visions of capsules covered in green fuzz, gradually
dissolving and drip, drip, dripping......
Yah, made me shudder. :-)

Susan
ThomasMuffaletto
2004-10-06 01:09:54 UTC
Permalink
sure I guess for some people medications are the
answer to everything. my wife had her blood work done
and her cholesterol is higher than yours.
she was given the 3 choices.
medications
become an expert on nutrition and treat herself.
go see a dietitian and get a low cholesterol diet.
she went with the dietitian and is following the diet
she has also started to exercise.
she is taking 3 months to see if she can get her cholesterol down
with out the use of medications.
cholesterol has always been a problem for her but now she
is taking action.
December 19th is her next blood work. if you want to know how
it turns out Dana.. just let me know.
Tom
Post by Dana©
Maybe you remember that I was having a fasting blood
test not long ago. Well I have received the results.
I have a rough draft and for the exact numbers I will have to phone
back and request it. :(
But, from the results where I received more than a check mark saying
Cholesterol: 203 (199)
HDL: 68 (35>)
LDL: 88 (<100)
Triglycerides: 234 (<150)
Potassium: 4.5 (3.7/5.2)
Blood Sugar: 132
My question is, if my LDL and HDL levels are good, how can my total
cholesterol be high?
Everything else was within normal range, but I don't know the exact
numbers, all they gave was a check mark.
Any ideas about the cholesterol?
Dana
"Courage in women is often mistaken for insanity."
Unknown
John38
2004-10-06 09:59:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dana©
My question is, if my LDL and HDL levels are good, how can my total
cholesterol be high?
Trigs figure in the total count. You have the same problem as I have.
Good chol #s apart from trig.

I have tried the exercise route to lower trig (if you can exercise, it's
the best for it) but mine remain stubbornly high, so I've been put on a
fibrate (a statin had no real effect on trigs). I am consciously eating
less in an effort to decrease the trig. The trig values leap after every
meal (this is why it has to be a fasting test).

I'm guessing that if I lose weight, the trigs will normalise. I was 88kg
@ dx. After being on sulphs for nearly a year, my weight shot up 20kg.
I'm having a devil of a time trying to lose it. In addition to this, the
sulphs are starting to not work, hence the signature. My doc says that
some people are resistant to trig lowering, despite them doing all they
possibly can. It's just a question of trying your best, and if
necessary, going onto suitable medication to lower it.

Good luck.
--
John38 : LADA, so it seems : last Hb1Ac = 6.9%
Quentin Grady
2004-10-10 05:19:37 UTC
Permalink
This post not CC'd by email
Post by Dana©
Cholesterol: 203 (199)
HDL: 68 (35>)
LDL: 88 (<100)
Triglycerides: 234 (<150)
Potassium: 4.5 (3.7/5.2)
Blood Sugar: 132
My question is, if my LDL and HDL levels are good, how can my total
cholesterol be high?
Total cholesterol is calculated this way.

Cholesterol = LDL + HDL + 0.2 x TG.
= 88 + 68 + 0.2 x 234
= 202.8 which rounds to 203.
Post by Dana©
Everything else was within normal range, but I don't know the exact
numbers, all they gave was a check mark.
Any ideas about the cholesterol?
Read what Old Al had to say.

While the following is probably not be your cup of tea, others might
find it helpful.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov//entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=15008828

http://tinyurl.com/4fb3r

Click on full text. I found the .pdf version easiest to read.

The key thing to look at is the graph of blood glucose and
triglycerides. High triglycerides are a recipe for nastiness.
Post by Dana©
Dana
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
Thomas Muffaletto
2005-01-01 01:28:17 UTC
Permalink
you probably wont see this Dana.
but anyway incase you are just lurking.
my wife was able to lower her cholesterol
by 7 points in 3 months while following
the diet her dietitian gave her for her high cholesterol.
I suspect she will have it even better in the next 3 months.
Tom
Something's just take time - faster does not mean better.
--
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
Your American Diabetes Association
http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
My Website
http://www.gantlet.000k2.com/
Post by Dana©
Maybe you remember that I was having a fasting blood
test not long ago. Well I have received the results.
I have a rough draft and for the exact numbers I will have to phone
back and request it. :(
But, from the results where I received more than a check mark saying
Cholesterol: 203 (199)
HDL: 68 (35>)
LDL: 88 (<100)
Triglycerides: 234 (<150)
Potassium: 4.5 (3.7/5.2)
Blood Sugar: 132
My question is, if my LDL and HDL levels are good, how can my total
cholesterol be high?
Everything else was within normal range, but I don't know the exact
numbers, all they gave was a check mark.
Any ideas about the cholesterol?
Dana
"Courage in women is often mistaken for insanity."
Unknown
Susan
2005-01-01 20:27:06 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Thomas Muffaletto
my wife was able to lower her cholesterol
by 7 points in 3 months while following
the diet her dietitian gave her for her high cholesterol.
I suspect she will have it even better in the next 3 months.
Tom
I lowered my cholesterol 100 pts with diet and pantethine alone. Would've been
more, but even though my LDL went down 70 pts, my HDL doubled, to 70.

Susan
Susan
2005-01-01 20:31:57 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Dana©
Maybe you remember that I was having a fasting blood
test not long ago. Well I have received the results.
I have a rough draft and for the exact numbers I will have to phone
back and request it. :(
But, from the results where I received more than a check mark saying
Cholesterol: 203 (199)
There's nothing wrong with this number, depending upon the ratios of the
individual components. What was you TC on your last fasting test? Did you fast
at least 12 hours?
Post by Dana©
HDL: 68 (35>)
68 is associated with low CVD risk!
Post by Dana©
LDL: 88 (<100)
Very low! Your ratios of HDL to TC and to LDL are very good!
Post by Dana©
Triglycerides: 234 (<150)
This is way too high. Suggests either not low enough carbs (TGL is a marker
for carb consumption) or not a long enough fast.
Post by Dana©
Potassium: 4.5 (3.7/5.2)
Blood Sugar: 132
This is also way too high.
Post by Dana©
My question is, if my LDL and HDL levels are good, how can my total
cholesterol be high?
If your TC is high due to an increase in your HDL, that's good. Try to ignore
that number and focus on ratios and LDL particle size. Your high TGLs suggest
you have more work to do cutting carbs, or at least high GI carbs, Dana.

Susan

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