Discussion:
How do you figure?
(too old to reply)
Willy
2008-11-21 21:24:25 UTC
Permalink
Some days things like this happen, and it only goes to prove how unique our
own personal diabetes can be, and how unpredictable at times.

Today I had lunch at one of my favorite "diners"... and I had a grilled
cheeseburger on grilled rye and an order of cole slaw. As I was eating it,
I was thinking - I bet this nails me. TWO slices of REAL bread, and who
knows how much sugar is in the slaw, which was a generous portion. So I
checked when I returned home - about an hour, and was at 98. WHAT? Can
this be? Well, I always peak at two hours, so we'll see. Two hours...
103.

How can this be? I'm happy, and I will do it again, but HOW can this be.
Just when I think I've got it all figured out, I have a surprise, and in
this case, a great one!

At the same time, at the table beside ours, sat a couple, probably early
60's, and I couldn't help but hear parts of their conversation, which was
about his diabetes and finding diabetic shoes. I also noticed when he left
he was walking in diabetic sandals... and folks, we have 8 inches of snow on
the ground right now, so I can comfortably assume he was having some SERIOUS
foot problems.

Now for the killer... I also noticed what he had for lunch. Read chicken
fingers, the kind with lots of breading, and onion rings, and cole slaw, and
get this... a LARGE banana milk shake, special made just for him as banana
is not usually on their menu, but they had some FRESH bananas.

I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can you
be??????

I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than half
of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they develop
more serious issues.

Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?

Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you do
the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I also know
that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do it. But
addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to stuff your face
with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my mind!!!! I made up my
mind to eat right, and I've done it without exception for a few months, and
I'll do it for the rest of my life. Easy? Yes really it is. You just DO
IT....

Thoughts anyone?

Wes
Nicky
2008-11-21 21:34:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
How can this be? I'm happy, and I will do it again, but HOW can this be.
Just when I think I've got it all figured out, I have a surprise, and in
this case, a great one!
Check it all the way, Wes - you might have spiked fast and be dropping at the hour mark.
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can you
be??????
I think the poor sod was probably obeying his doctor's orders to eat
less sugar, and the general asinine advice to eat low fat and plenty
of fruit and vegetables. The guy was under-educated, not necessarily
stupid. There but for the grace of God (and this newsgroup, plus a few
individuals) go all of us.
Post by Willy
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you do
the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I also know
that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do it.
Just do it, Wes. Every puff you take is contributing to inflammation
you already have too much of because of the diabetes, hardening your
arteries, putting you at risk of heart failure AND the kind of
circulation issues that mean that poor guy in the restaurant has to
wear sandals in the snow.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
Cheri
2008-11-21 23:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nicky
Just do it, Wes. Every puff you take is contributing to inflammation
you already have too much of because of the diabetes, hardening your
arteries, putting you at risk of heart failure AND the kind of
circulation issues that mean that poor guy in the restaurant has to
wear sandals in the snow.
Plus that air machine on wheels isn't going to be easy to drag around in the
snow either. :-)

Cheri
Cheri
2008-11-21 23:18:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nicky
Just do it, Wes. Every puff you take is contributing to inflammation
you already have too much of because of the diabetes, hardening your
arteries, putting you at risk of heart failure AND the kind of
circulation issues that mean that poor guy in the restaurant has to
wear sandals in the snow.
Plus that air machine on wheels isn't going to be easy to drag around in the
snow either. :-)

Cheri
High Miles
2008-11-21 23:22:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheri
Post by Nicky
Just do it, Wes. Every puff you take is contributing to inflammation
you already have too much of because of the diabetes, hardening your
arteries, putting you at risk of heart failure AND the kind of
circulation issues that mean that poor guy in the restaurant has to
wear sandals in the snow.
Plus that air machine on wheels isn't going to be easy to drag around in the
snow either. :-)
Cheri
Picture a little sled.......................and a large furry dog.

Dorothy
Cheri
2008-11-21 23:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by High Miles
Post by Cheri
Post by Nicky
Just do it, Wes. Every puff you take is contributing to inflammation
you already have too much of because of the diabetes, hardening your
arteries, putting you at risk of heart failure AND the kind of
circulation issues that mean that poor guy in the restaurant has to
wear sandals in the snow.
Plus that air machine on wheels isn't going to be easy to drag around in the
snow either. :-)
Cheri
Picture a little sled.......................and a large furry dog.
Dorothy
LOL, love your sense of humor BTW.

Cheri
Susan
2008-11-22 01:04:21 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Cheri
LOL, love your sense of humor BTW.
She's the only person on usenet who almost literally owes me a monitor
and keyboard.

Susan
Nicky
2008-11-21 23:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by High Miles
Post by Cheri
Post by Nicky
Just do it, Wes. Every puff you take is contributing to inflammation
you already have too much of because of the diabetes, hardening your
arteries, putting you at risk of heart failure AND the kind of
circulation issues that mean that poor guy in the restaurant has to
wear sandals in the snow.
Plus that air machine on wheels isn't going to be easy to drag around in the
snow either. :-)
Cheri
Picture a little sled.......................and a large furry dog.
Awwwwww :D

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
Cheri
2008-11-21 21:39:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you do
the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I also
know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do it. But
addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to stuff your face
with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my mind!!!! I made up my
mind to eat right, and I've done it without exception for a few months,
and I'll do it for the rest of my life. Easy? Yes really it is. You
just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
Your post really doesn't make a lot of sense to me. On one hand you
say..."continuing to stuff your face with poison (food) blows your mind" as
you continue to smoke? I don't get your point. You should certainly be able
to understand the OP and *addiction* IMO, especially since you're eating
cheeseburgers on rye and cole slaw...and probably finishing all of it with a
cigarette or two. :-)

Cheri
Willy
2008-11-24 22:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheri
Post by Willy
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you do
the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I also
know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do it.
But addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to stuff your
face with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my mind!!!! I made
up my mind to eat right, and I've done it without exception for a few
months, and I'll do it for the rest of my life. Easy? Yes really it is.
You just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
Your post really doesn't make a lot of sense to me. On one hand you
say..."continuing to stuff your face with poison (food) blows your mind"
as you continue to smoke? I don't get your point. You should certainly be
able to understand the OP and *addiction* IMO, especially since you're
eating cheeseburgers on rye and cole slaw...and probably finishing all of
it with a cigarette or two. :-)
Cheri
Ha! Well, note my sugar numbers before you get freaky on me! LOL... and
trust me when I tell you, in all the months since I've been diagnosed, I've
never EVER had a lunch like that one. It was truly the exception to the
rule. And yes, smoking is bad - not as bad as you believe, but it's
definitely not wise, and the 8-10 that I enjoy a day does me no good, that's
for sure.

But one does not offset or compare to the other. Okay, it does in YOUR
mind... you obviously aren't a smoker.

but forgetting the matter of tobacco, and back to my real topic... why is
it that SO many who KNOW how to eat at least 'better' in order to protect
their immediate health, we're talking about our health in the next few
minutes literally, will still continue to eat food that is CLEARLY going to
make them sick.

I just don't get it... but there's something I'm missing because as many DO
as do NOT even after diagnosis.

Wes
Cheri
2008-11-24 22:56:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
But one does not offset or compare to the other. Okay, it does in YOUR
mind... you obviously aren't a smoker.
I am LMAO at that one. That's why I know exactly what you're talking about,
and I'm very sure of my opinion on it too. :-)

Cheri
Willy
2008-11-26 02:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheri
Post by Willy
But one does not offset or compare to the other. Okay, it does in YOUR
mind... you obviously aren't a smoker.
I am LMAO at that one. That's why I know exactly what you're talking
about, and I'm very sure of my opinion on it too. :-)
Cheri
you know Cheri, I don't think I've ever written a more poorly constructed
post in my entire life... I went back and read what I'd said in that rushed
thought, and it was simply laughable... and I'm embarrassed to admit that
I've actually written several things in my life where I received strong
encouragement from Professor's and writing professionals to submit.

Could I possibly have contradicted myself any more?

Oh if only it were possible to withdraw a post... I would have snatched
that entire tirade back and buried it under a rock! LOL

Wes
Susan
2008-11-21 22:26:26 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can
you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you
do the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I
also know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do
it. But addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to
stuff your face with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my
mind!!!! I made up my mind to eat right, and I've done it without
exception for a few months, and I'll do it for the rest of my life.
Easy? Yes really it is. You just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Yeah.

I promise to be more sympathetic to you if you develop lung cancer than
you are towards folks like him.

Susan
High Miles
2008-11-21 23:17:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but
I just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID
can you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you
do the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I
also know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do
it. But addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to
stuff your face with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my
mind!!!! I made up my mind to eat right, and I've done it without
exception for a few months, and I'll do it for the rest of my life.
Easy? Yes really it is. You just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Yeah.
I promise to be more sympathetic to you if you develop lung cancer than
you are towards folks like him.
Susan
Make that 'when' kiddo. After forty years.....................It's a
lock.

I'd rather die from ribeyes and buttery potatoes.
Nicky
2008-11-21 23:29:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by High Miles
I'd rather die from ribeyes and buttery potatoes.
OY! No potatoes. Or only a very few new ones, and only then if your
meter says it's OK. Learn to love mashed cauliflower, possibly with
some cream cheese and pepper folded through...

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
High Miles
2008-11-22 00:18:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nicky
Post by High Miles
I'd rather die from ribeyes and buttery potatoes.
OY! No potatoes. Or only a very few new ones, and only then if your
meter says it's OK. Learn to love mashed cauliflower, possibly with
some cream cheese and pepper folded through...
New potatoes ? I may be easy, but I'm not cheap.
No used potatoes for me.

Actually, I prefer sweet potatoes now, and they don't spike me - yet.
I takes me cauliflower raw - same for broccoli.
And the beef...........................walk that steer close to the fire,
shave him and serve him.

D
Post by Nicky
Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
Susan
2008-11-22 00:01:30 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by High Miles
Make that 'when' kiddo. After forty years.....................It's a
lock.
I actually typed 'when' and then changed it. I was tryinta be
uncharacteristically nice.
Post by High Miles
I'd rather die from ribeyes and buttery potatoes.
Mmmm. I sometimes put compound butter or gorgonzola on ribeye, but hold
the spuds.

The ribeye is good for you, especially if it's grass fed. The taters'll
getcha, though. ;-)

Susan
High Miles
2008-11-22 00:31:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Post by High Miles
Make that 'when' kiddo. After forty years.....................It's
a lock.
I actually typed 'when' and then changed it. I was tryinta be
uncharacteristically nice.
Now - you know that never works out in the end.
Or - out of the end.
Post by Susan
Post by High Miles
I'd rather die from ribeyes and buttery potatoes.
Mmmm. I sometimes put compound butter or gorgonzola on ribeye, but hold
the spuds.
The ribeye is good for you, especially if it's grass fed. The taters'll
getcha, though. ;-)
Susan
So far, I ain't too afraid of 'em and don't eat 'em often anyway.

But I surely do love a lightly cooked piece of cow.

Gorgonzola is good on everything....................but ice cream.
Susan
2008-11-22 00:59:37 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by High Miles
Now - you know that never works out in the end.
Or - out of the end.
I'm a slow learner.
Post by High Miles
So far, I ain't too afraid of 'em and don't eat 'em often anyway.
But I surely do love a lightly cooked piece of cow.
If we weren't supposed to eat 'em, they wouldn't be made out of meat.
Post by High Miles
Gorgonzola is good on everything....................but ice cream.
<*shudder*>

Susan
Michelle C
2008-11-24 22:54:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by High Miles
Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can
you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you
do the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I
also know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do
it. But addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to
stuff your face with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my
mind!!!! I made up my mind to eat right, and I've done it without
exception for a few months, and I'll do it for the rest of my life.
Easy? Yes really it is. You just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Yeah.
I promise to be more sympathetic to you if you develop lung cancer than
you are towards folks like him.
Susan
Make that 'when' kiddo. After forty years.....................It's a
lock.
I'd rather die from ribeyes and buttery potatoes.
Actually, it's not as much as a lock as people think. Statistically, only
about 30% of smokers develop lung cancer. Like everything, it has to do
with genetic susceptibility. Doesn't mean smoking is good for a person by
any means though.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
High Miles
2008-11-24 23:38:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle C
Post by High Miles
Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can
you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you
do the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I
also know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do
it. But addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to
stuff your face with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my
mind!!!! I made up my mind to eat right, and I've done it without
exception for a few months, and I'll do it for the rest of my life.
Easy? Yes really it is. You just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Yeah.
I promise to be more sympathetic to you if you develop lung cancer than
you are towards folks like him.
Susan
Make that 'when' kiddo. After forty years.....................It's a
lock.
I'd rather die from ribeyes and buttery potatoes.
Actually, it's not as much as a lock as people think. Statistically, only
about 30% of smokers develop lung cancer. Like everything, it has to do
with genetic susceptibility. Doesn't mean smoking is good for a person by
any means though.
There are other fatal outcomes attached to smoking than lung cancer.
When you add them up, it's a pretty good argument for NOT.
Michelle C
2008-11-25 16:38:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by High Miles
Post by Michelle C
Post by High Miles
Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but
I just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID
can you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you
do the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I
also know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do
it. But addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to
stuff your face with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my
mind!!!! I made up my mind to eat right, and I've done it without
exception for a few months, and I'll do it for the rest of my life.
Easy? Yes really it is. You just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Yeah.
I promise to be more sympathetic to you if you develop lung cancer than
you are towards folks like him.
Susan
Make that 'when' kiddo. After forty years.....................It's a
lock.
I'd rather die from ribeyes and buttery potatoes.
Actually, it's not as much as a lock as people think. Statistically,
only about 30% of smokers develop lung cancer. Like everything, it has
to do with genetic susceptibility. Doesn't mean smoking is good for a
person by any means though.
There are other fatal outcomes attached to smoking than lung cancer.
When you add them up, it's a pretty good argument for NOT.
No disagreement there.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
bgl
2008-11-25 01:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle C
Actually, it's not as much as a lock as people think. Statistically,
only about 30% of smokers develop lung cancer. Like everything, it
has to do with genetic susceptibility. Doesn't mean smoking is good
for a person by any means though.
--
How about adding in those who get other smoking-related cancers,
emphysema & other lung problems even if not cancer, who get
complications from any respiratory illness & maybe die from that....

Cancer isn't the only smoking-related problem that can make you sick(er)
or kill you.
bj
Peppermint Patootie
2008-11-25 02:35:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by bgl
Post by Michelle C
Actually, it's not as much as a lock as people think. Statistically,
only about 30% of smokers develop lung cancer. Like everything, it
has to do with genetic susceptibility. Doesn't mean smoking is good
for a person by any means though.
--
How about adding in those who get other smoking-related cancers,
emphysema & other lung problems even if not cancer, who get
complications from any respiratory illness & maybe die from that....
Cancer isn't the only smoking-related problem that can make you sick(er)
or kill you.
bj
Not to mention negatively impacting circulation, which is a big concern
for diabetics.

PP, T2
bgl
2008-11-25 16:53:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peppermint Patootie
Post by bgl
Post by Michelle C
Actually, it's not as much as a lock as people think.
Statistically,
only about 30% of smokers develop lung cancer. Like everything, it
has to do with genetic susceptibility. Doesn't mean smoking is
good for a person by any means though.
--
How about adding in those who get other smoking-related cancers,
emphysema & other lung problems even if not cancer, who get
complications from any respiratory illness & maybe die from that....
Cancer isn't the only smoking-related problem that can make you
sick(er) or kill you.
bj
Not to mention negatively impacting circulation, which is a big
concern for diabetics.
PP, T2
Yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of other smoking-side-effects if we just
think a while.

And let's not forget the financial impact -- you can buy a lot of extra
strips (the ones your doctor doesn't think you need :-)) for what those
smokes cost!
bj
Michelle C
2008-11-25 16:39:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle C
Actually, it's not as much as a lock as people think. Statistically,
only about 30% of smokers develop lung cancer. Like everything, it has
to do with genetic susceptibility. Doesn't mean smoking is good for a
person by any means though.
--
How about adding in those who get other smoking-related cancers, emphysema
& other lung problems even if not cancer, who get complications from any
respiratory illness & maybe die from that....
Cancer isn't the only smoking-related problem that can make you sick(er)
or kill you.
bj
As I said to Dorothy, no disagreement there. I was just clarifying that
100% of smokers do not get lung cancer.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
Willy
2008-11-26 03:30:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle C
Post by High Miles
Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but
I just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID
can you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you
do the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I
also know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do
it. But addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to
stuff your face with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my
mind!!!! I made up my mind to eat right, and I've done it without
exception for a few months, and I'll do it for the rest of my life.
Easy? Yes really it is. You just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Yeah.
I promise to be more sympathetic to you if you develop lung cancer than
you are towards folks like him.
Susan
Make that 'when' kiddo. After forty years.....................It's a
lock.
I'd rather die from ribeyes and buttery potatoes.
Actually, it's not as much as a lock as people think. Statistically, only
about 30% of smokers develop lung cancer. Like everything, it has to do
with genetic susceptibility. Doesn't mean smoking is good for a person by
any means though.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
You're right Michelle... and I'm NOT saying this in defense of my tobacco
use, but my Dad, who didn't smoke, died of cancer while his brothers lived
to a ripe old age (one still alive) and they all smoked cancer free.
However, one of them DID have serious breathing problems which required
oxygen in his latter years.

Wes
Michelle C
2008-11-26 16:28:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Post by Michelle C
Post by High Miles
Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but
I just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID
can you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you
do the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I
also know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do
it. But addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to
stuff your face with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my
mind!!!! I made up my mind to eat right, and I've done it without
exception for a few months, and I'll do it for the rest of my life.
Easy? Yes really it is. You just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Yeah.
I promise to be more sympathetic to you if you develop lung cancer than
you are towards folks like him.
Susan
Make that 'when' kiddo. After forty years.....................It's a
lock.
I'd rather die from ribeyes and buttery potatoes.
Actually, it's not as much as a lock as people think. Statistically,
only about 30% of smokers develop lung cancer. Like everything, it has
to do with genetic susceptibility. Doesn't mean smoking is good for a
person by any means though.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
You're right Michelle... and I'm NOT saying this in defense of my tobacco
use, but my Dad, who didn't smoke, died of cancer while his brothers lived
to a ripe old age (one still alive) and they all smoked cancer free.
However, one of them DID have serious breathing problems which required
oxygen in his latter years.
Wes
Yep, doctors hate those guys with the constitution of George Burns. ;-)
Some have got the right genes for smoking; most are not that lucky.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
A R Pickett
2008-11-21 23:32:51 UTC
Permalink
Willy described a recent lunch -

I won't comment on the smoking - everything I could say you've already
thought of.

But on this part of your post - TWO slices of REAL bread, and who
Post by Willy
knows how much sugar is in the slaw, which was a generous portion. So I
checked when I returned home - about an hour, and was at 98. WHAT? Can
this be? Well, I always peak at two hours, so we'll see. Two hours...
103.
How can this be? I'm happy, and I will do it again, but HOW can this be.
Just when I think I've got it all figured out, I have a surprise, and in
this case, a great one!
I recently took a four day cruise. They served afternoon tea, and on our
last afternoon at sea, I went down to participate. Servers were standing by
the various trays - and I selected two small sandwiches on dark bread. I
thought one was tomato and cheese, turned out to be ham. The other was
cucumber. Got one small fruit tart, and one chocolate dipped strawberry.
On the to the table, and here comes the tea. Now - I LOVE strong tea, very
sweet, with milk added. I hadn't had any tea like that since diagnosis.
The table conversation was engrossing, the view of the wake from the stern
out the window, and I put sugar and milk in my tea. And had four cups. Two
hours later, I tested at 120. I'm coming to the conclusion that overall
exercise makes a big difference (I had taken two one mile walks on the deck
that day) and also emotions. I was relaxed and on vacation, I was having a
favorite indulgence, I was enjoying visiting. 120 was probably a spike, but
certainly not an unmanageable one.

I'm fairly new at all this, and still learning. But I'm often surprised at
high readings, when I'm sure I've "been good" and equally surprised at
occasional low ones, when I know I've given in to temptation now and then.

As to the guy at the other table, I have heard the comment more than once
that the oral medications "take care of the blood sugar" and seen people eat
whatever they think sounds good. I don't understand it, but it's more
common than I would like to believe.
--
A R Pickett aka Woodstock

T2, 1500 mg Metformin, 10 mg glyberide

"Sometimes the facts threaten the truth"
Amos Oz, prize winning Israeli author

Read my book reviews at:
http://www.booksnbytes.com/reviews/_idx_ws_all_byauth.html

Now blogging!
http://www.journalscape.com/woodstock/

Remove lower case "e" to respond
High Miles
2008-11-22 00:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by A R Pickett
Willy described a recent lunch -
I won't comment on the smoking - everything I could say you've already
thought of.
But on this part of your post - TWO slices of REAL bread, and who
Post by Willy
knows how much sugar is in the slaw, which was a generous portion. So I
checked when I returned home - about an hour, and was at 98. WHAT? Can
this be? Well, I always peak at two hours, so we'll see. Two hours...
103.
How can this be? I'm happy, and I will do it again, but HOW can this be.
Just when I think I've got it all figured out, I have a surprise, and in
this case, a great one!
I recently took a four day cruise. They served afternoon tea, and on our
last afternoon at sea, I went down to participate. Servers were standing by
the various trays - and I selected two small sandwiches on dark bread. I
thought one was tomato and cheese, turned out to be ham. The other was
cucumber. Got one small fruit tart, and one chocolate dipped strawberry.
On the to the table, and here comes the tea. Now - I LOVE strong tea, very
sweet, with milk added. I hadn't had any tea like that since diagnosis.
The table conversation was engrossing, the view of the wake from the stern
out the window, and I put sugar and milk in my tea. And had four cups. Two
hours later, I tested at 120. I'm coming to the conclusion that overall
exercise makes a big difference (I had taken two one mile walks on the deck
that day) and also emotions. I was relaxed and on vacation, I was having a
favorite indulgence, I was enjoying visiting. 120 was probably a spike, but
certainly not an unmanageable one.
I'm fairly new at all this, and still learning. But I'm often surprised at
high readings, when I'm sure I've "been good" and equally surprised at
occasional low ones, when I know I've given in to temptation now and then.
I'm very new at the game as well, and it was disheartening to find the same
effects. Unpredictable. What a nasty beast we've teamed up with.
Post by A R Pickett
As to the guy at the other table, I have heard the comment more than once
that the oral medications "take care of the blood sugar" and seen people eat
whatever they think sounds good. I don't understand it, but it's more
common than I would like to believe.
I'm only using diet and as much exercise as possible for control so far.
And - cinnamon - until the new, latest study says not to.
Susan
2008-11-22 01:02:31 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes

A R Pickett wrote:
Two
Post by A R Pickett
hours later, I tested at 120. I'm coming to the conclusion that overall
exercise makes a big difference (I had taken two one mile walks on the deck
that day) and also emotions. I was relaxed and on vacation, I was having a
favorite indulgence, I was enjoying visiting. 120 was probably a spike, but
certainly not an unmanageable one.
I'm fairly new at all this, and still learning. But I'm often surprised at
high readings, when I'm sure I've "been good" and equally surprised at
occasional low ones, when I know I've given in to temptation now and then.
As to the guy at the other table, I have heard the comment more than once
that the oral medications "take care of the blood sugar" and seen people eat
whatever they think sounds good. I don't understand it, but it's more
common than I would like to believe.
One thing I'll say about this is that unless you test at one hour, you
really have no way of knowing how bad your spike was. I'm not just
being a noodge (though that is known to happen!), but lots of us still
have robust two hour insulin responses many years after the first phase
(first hour) insulin response is shot. One hour is the test you really
need to use to figure out your bad spike foods.

Just sayinzall. :-)

Susan
Willy
2008-11-24 22:49:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Two
Post by A R Pickett
hours later, I tested at 120. I'm coming to the conclusion that overall
exercise makes a big difference (I had taken two one mile walks on the
deck that day) and also emotions. I was relaxed and on vacation, I was
having a favorite indulgence, I was enjoying visiting. 120 was probably
a spike, but certainly not an unmanageable one.
I'm fairly new at all this, and still learning. But I'm often surprised
at high readings, when I'm sure I've "been good" and equally surprised at
occasional low ones, when I know I've given in to temptation now and then.
As to the guy at the other table, I have heard the comment more than once
that the oral medications "take care of the blood sugar" and seen people
eat whatever they think sounds good. I don't understand it, but it's
more common than I would like to believe.
One thing I'll say about this is that unless you test at one hour, you
really have no way of knowing how bad your spike was. I'm not just being
a noodge (though that is known to happen!), but lots of us still have
robust two hour insulin responses many years after the first phase (first
hour) insulin response is shot. One hour is the test you really need to
use to figure out your bad spike foods.
Just sayinzall. :-)
Susan
Agreed Susan, I DID test at one hour and again at two. I know my body...
I've tested like a trooper the last few months, and I can say with certainty
that I ALWAYS spike max at 2 hours after a full meal. 30 minutes after a
meal I hardly change at all... perhaps 20 points at the very most. But at
two hours, that's when my REAL numbers show up. I think I must have a slow
digestive system.

I also know that eating sugary foods (which I don't)... are the exception
and DO show up quickly. I had a low the other day and felt dizzy... I was
in the 60's. So I ate two bites of cake with chocolate icing (reduced sugar
no less) and within 30 minutes I was at 130. YIKES.. and that was from two
bites, no kidding. Normally I would have eaten cake on a full meal, and two
bites wouldn't have had such an impact, but it was an empty stomach.

Wes
Nicky
2008-11-22 13:51:05 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:32:51 -0700, "A R Pickett"
Post by A R Pickett
I recently took a four day cruise. They served afternoon tea, and on our
last afternoon at sea, I went down to participate. Servers were standing by
the various trays - and I selected two small sandwiches on dark bread. I
thought one was tomato and cheese, turned out to be ham. The other was
cucumber. Got one small fruit tart, and one chocolate dipped strawberry.
On the to the table, and here comes the tea. Now - I LOVE strong tea, very
sweet, with milk added. I hadn't had any tea like that since diagnosis.
The table conversation was engrossing, the view of the wake from the stern
out the window, and I put sugar and milk in my tea. And had four cups. Two
hours later, I tested at 120.
Woodstock - you probably spiked big from the sugar at around the 15-20
min mark. Then maybe a comparatively little spike from the tart and
the chocolate, then finally the bread spike when you actually tested.
But the damage would have been done by the sugar.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
Julie Bove
2008-11-21 23:42:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Some days things like this happen, and it only goes to prove how unique
our own personal diabetes can be, and how unpredictable at times.
Today I had lunch at one of my favorite "diners"... and I had a grilled
cheeseburger on grilled rye and an order of cole slaw. As I was eating
it, I was thinking - I bet this nails me. TWO slices of REAL bread,
and who knows how much sugar is in the slaw, which was a generous portion.
So I checked when I returned home - about an hour, and was at 98. WHAT?
Can this be? Well, I always peak at two hours, so we'll see. Two
hours... 103.
How can this be? I'm happy, and I will do it again, but HOW can this be.
Just when I think I've got it all figured out, I have a surprise, and in
this case, a great one!
At the same time, at the table beside ours, sat a couple, probably early
60's, and I couldn't help but hear parts of their conversation, which was
about his diabetes and finding diabetic shoes. I also noticed when he
left he was walking in diabetic sandals... and folks, we have 8 inches of
snow on the ground right now, so I can comfortably assume he was having
some SERIOUS foot problems.
Now for the killer... I also noticed what he had for lunch. Read chicken
fingers, the kind with lots of breading, and onion rings, and cole slaw,
and get this... a LARGE banana milk shake, special made just for him as
banana is not usually on their menu, but they had some FRESH bananas.
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can you
be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than half
of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they develop
more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you do
the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I also
know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do it. But
addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to stuff your face
with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my mind!!!! I made up my
mind to eat right, and I've done it without exception for a few months,
and I'll do it for the rest of my life. Easy? Yes really it is. You
just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
We're all different. I used to be able to eat two pieces of rye bread at a
meal with no problem. Could eat *some* kinds of coleslaw. I never tried
any with a creamy dressing and only ate it at one place that served one that
was minimally dressed and not sweet tasting. Now I eat a few bites only of
the slaw I get at a Mexican restaurant. There appears to be very little
dressing. It is clear and not sweet. Rye bread spikes me, so no more.

As for the other people... There are two diabetics in my family that seem
to eat a lot of sweets and other things I wouldn't touch. And I'm not a low
carber. Do they have problems? They think not. Do they test their BG like
they should? Nope. Sometimes not at all for very long periods of time.
They think it is not a problem.
krom
2008-11-22 05:57:55 UTC
Permalink
My thought no. one is some days as a type two things do work as intended
despite us..HOWEVER its like playing russian roulette with you health
because there will be days that same meal will send you to the 160's or
higher and mess you up all day on a rollar coaster of highs and lows as your
system under and over reacts at its want to do.

Second thought is its hard to side with you on calling the other guy stupid
when you talking about KNOWINGLY eating a meal you assumed WOULD spike you
and you ate it anyway...so maybe that guy kept eating things he shouldnt
until it oopsie...caught up with him..

Theres no reason not to eat your burger with lettuce or just eating half the
bread and just eating a bite or two of the slaw to be on the safe side...

But you CHOSE to endulge yourself and as the sugar filled slaw dressing
dribbled down your chin..you lookd over and judged sombody else.

its a slippery slope..

KROM
Post by Willy
Some days things like this happen, and it only goes to prove how unique
our own personal diabetes can be, and how unpredictable at times.
Today I had lunch at one of my favorite "diners"... and I had a grilled
cheeseburger on grilled rye and an order of cole slaw. As I was eating
it, I was thinking - I bet this nails me. TWO slices of REAL bread,
and who knows how much sugar is in the slaw, which was a generous portion.
So I checked when I returned home - about an hour, and was at 98. WHAT?
Can this be? Well, I always peak at two hours, so we'll see. Two
hours... 103.
How can this be? I'm happy, and I will do it again, but HOW can this be.
Just when I think I've got it all figured out, I have a surprise, and in
this case, a great one!
At the same time, at the table beside ours, sat a couple, probably early
60's, and I couldn't help but hear parts of their conversation, which was
about his diabetes and finding diabetic shoes. I also noticed when he
left he was walking in diabetic sandals... and folks, we have 8 inches of
snow on the ground right now, so I can comfortably assume he was having
some SERIOUS foot problems.
Now for the killer... I also noticed what he had for lunch. Read chicken
fingers, the kind with lots of breading, and onion rings, and cole slaw,
and get this... a LARGE banana milk shake, special made just for him as
banana is not usually on their menu, but they had some FRESH bananas.
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can you
be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than half
of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they develop
more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you do
the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I also
know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do it. But
addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to stuff your face
with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my mind!!!! I made up my
mind to eat right, and I've done it without exception for a few months,
and I'll do it for the rest of my life. Easy? Yes really it is. You
just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
Willy
2008-11-24 22:53:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by krom
My thought no. one is some days as a type two things do work as intended
despite us..HOWEVER its like playing russian roulette with you health
because there will be days that same meal will send you to the 160's or
higher and mess you up all day on a rollar coaster of highs and lows as
your system under and over reacts at its want to do.
Second thought is its hard to side with you on calling the other guy
stupid when you talking about KNOWINGLY eating a meal you assumed WOULD
spike you and you ate it anyway...so maybe that guy kept eating things he
shouldnt until it oopsie...caught up with him..
Theres no reason not to eat your burger with lettuce or just eating half
the bread and just eating a bite or two of the slaw to be on the safe
side...
But you CHOSE to endulge yourself and as the sugar filled slaw dressing
dribbled down your chin..you lookd over and judged sombody else.
its a slippery slope..
KROM
Post by Willy
Some days things like this happen, and it only goes to prove how unique
our own personal diabetes can be, and how unpredictable at times.
Today I had lunch at one of my favorite "diners"... and I had a grilled
cheeseburger on grilled rye and an order of cole slaw. As I was eating
it, I was thinking - I bet this nails me. TWO slices of REAL bread,
and who knows how much sugar is in the slaw, which was a generous
portion. So I checked when I returned home - about an hour, and was at
98. WHAT? Can this be? Well, I always peak at two hours, so we'll see.
Two hours... 103.
How can this be? I'm happy, and I will do it again, but HOW can this be.
Just when I think I've got it all figured out, I have a surprise, and in
this case, a great one!
At the same time, at the table beside ours, sat a couple, probably early
60's, and I couldn't help but hear parts of their conversation, which was
about his diabetes and finding diabetic shoes. I also noticed when he
left he was walking in diabetic sandals... and folks, we have 8 inches of
snow on the ground right now, so I can comfortably assume he was having
some SERIOUS foot problems.
Now for the killer... I also noticed what he had for lunch. Read
chicken fingers, the kind with lots of breading, and onion rings, and
cole slaw, and get this... a LARGE banana milk shake, special made just
for him as banana is not usually on their menu, but they had some FRESH
bananas.
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can
you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you do
the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I also
know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do it.
But addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to stuff your
face with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my mind!!!! I made
up my mind to eat right, and I've done it without exception for a few
months, and I'll do it for the rest of my life. Easy? Yes really it is.
You just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
Great points Krom, and as I said in an earlier post, this meal was an
exception by all means to what I would normally do. And I was wonderfully
pleased with the outcome, but have no plans to do it again soon! LOL

by the same token, and to make my point, had I eaten chicken fingers, onion
rings, slaw and a banana milk shake, I can't even begin to imagine where my
numbers would have been... especially if I was already suffering with feet
issues as a result of long term elevated numbers, which thankfully I'm not.

Wes
Robert Miles
2008-11-22 01:50:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Some days things like this happen, and it only goes to prove how unique
our own personal diabetes can be, and how unpredictable at times.
Today I had lunch at one of my favorite "diners"... and I had a grilled
cheeseburger on grilled rye and an order of cole slaw. As I was eating
it, I was thinking - I bet this nails me. TWO slices of REAL bread,
and who knows how much sugar is in the slaw, which was a generous portion.
So I checked when I returned home - about an hour, and was at 98. WHAT?
Can this be? Well, I always peak at two hours, so we'll see. Two
hours... 103.
How can this be? I'm happy, and I will do it again, but HOW can this be.
Just when I think I've got it all figured out, I have a surprise, and in
this case, a great one!
At the same time, at the table beside ours, sat a couple, probably early
60's, and I couldn't help but hear parts of their conversation, which was
about his diabetes and finding diabetic shoes. I also noticed when he
left he was walking in diabetic sandals... and folks, we have 8 inches of
snow on the ground right now, so I can comfortably assume he was having
some SERIOUS foot problems.
Now for the killer... I also noticed what he had for lunch. Read chicken
fingers, the kind with lots of breading, and onion rings, and cole slaw,
and get this... a LARGE banana milk shake, special made just for him as
banana is not usually on their menu, but they had some FRESH bananas.
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can you
be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than half
of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they develop
more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you do
the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I also
know that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do it. But
addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to stuff your face
with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my mind!!!! I made up my
mind to eat right, and I've done it without exception for a few months,
and I'll do it for the rest of my life. Easy? Yes really it is. You
just DO IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
Too many type 2 diabetics don't yet know about the benefits of
switching to a lowcarb diet; many of them won't until the ADA
gets behind the idea, and starts telling doctors about it.
Loretta Eisenberg
2008-11-22 16:22:40 UTC
Permalink
One does not have to smoke to survive. People have to eat to live. It
is much harder to give up food than it is to give up cigs. I give you a
challenge. quit smoking cold turkey and then tell me you have no
sympathy for people who are addicted. We dont know if he was a type one
or type II, that makes a lot of difference.

I say dont sit in judgment until you walk a mile in that mans shoes. If
he cant stop, he will suffer the consedquences, just as if you dont stop
smoking, you will suffer the consequenc es. People choos their poison.

all of this is just my opinion

as an aside, my friend is a diabetic, she eats such garbage excpt when
she is with me. She keeps telling me her a1c is 5.5 I always thought
she was lying. No one can eat like that and have such a low number. I
happen to have gone with her to the endo yesterday and I heard it myself
her a1c is 5.5.

so you never know
Robert Miles
2008-11-23 03:53:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Loretta Eisenberg
One does not have to smoke to survive. People have to eat to live. It
is much harder to give up food than it is to give up cigs. I give you a
challenge. quit smoking cold turkey and then tell me you have no
sympathy for people who are addicted. We dont know if he was a type one
or type II, that makes a lot of difference.
I say dont sit in judgment until you walk a mile in that mans shoes. If
he cant stop, he will suffer the consedquences, just as if you dont stop
smoking, you will suffer the consequenc es. People choos their poison.
all of this is just my opinion
as an aside, my friend is a diabetic, she eats such garbage excpt when
she is with me. She keeps telling me her a1c is 5.5 I always thought
she was lying. No one can eat like that and have such a low number. I
happen to have gone with her to the endo yesterday and I heard it myself
her a1c is 5.5.
so you never know
Blood conditions that affect how long your red cells live can affect your
A1C. I suspect she has one of those conditions too.
Alan S
2008-11-24 00:37:16 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 21:53:16 -0600, "Robert Miles"
Post by Robert Miles
Blood conditions that affect how long your red cells live can affect your
A1C. I suspect she has one of those conditions too.
I have suspected for quite a while that is the cause of my
A1c hovering around 6% despite my BG numbers being at levels
that should have an A1c hovering around 5.2%.

One of the symptoms of having "interesting blood":-)


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 2000 mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com (Analysis of a Day's Meals)
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Two Indian Hotels: to Sleep, Perchance...)
Willy
2008-11-24 22:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Loretta Eisenberg
One does not have to smoke to survive. People have to eat to live. It
is much harder to give up food than it is to give up cigs. I give you a
challenge. quit smoking cold turkey and then tell me you have no
sympathy for people who are addicted. We dont know if he was a type one
or type II, that makes a lot of difference.
I say dont sit in judgment until you walk a mile in that mans shoes. If
he cant stop, he will suffer the consedquences, just as if you dont stop
smoking, you will suffer the consequenc es. People choos their poison.
all of this is just my opinion
as an aside, my friend is a diabetic, she eats such garbage excpt when
she is with me. She keeps telling me her a1c is 5.5 I always thought
she was lying. No one can eat like that and have such a low number. I
happen to have gone with her to the endo yesterday and I heard it myself
her a1c is 5.5.
so you never know
Obviously there are different "levels" or varying degrees of diabetes...
mine isn't nearly as bad as others etc... although mine is much worse than
many. But I can't think ANY of us would have chicken fingers, onion rings,
slaw and a large banana milk shake in the same meal, would we?

Sympathy to addiction? Absolutely I have it - I actually wrote this in
hopes of getting others who eat wrong to come forward and defend their
actions.. by that meaning, I wanted to "hear it" from others in hopes of
understanding the thought process one must have in order to continue to eat
SO wrong.

Instead I'm getting (deservedly) bashed over my own pleasures of tobacco.

needless to say, I didn't do a very good job constructing my post! LOL

Wes
Cheri
2008-11-24 23:15:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
actions.. by that meaning, I wanted to "hear it" from others in hopes of
understanding the thought process one must have in order to continue to
eat SO wrong.
Instead I'm getting (deservedly) bashed over my own pleasures of tobacco.
needless to say, I didn't do a very good job constructing my post! LOL
All you need to do is ask yourself what *your* thought process is for
continuing to smoke with all the complications smoking can add to diabetes,
including decreased circulation to all parts of the body, and you'll have
your answer as to why the OP you were talking about was eating the way he
did. I'm a long time smoker, long time, like 50 years, so I do know, but I
don't wonder why OP do what they do. :-)

Cheri
Trinkwasser
2008-11-22 18:58:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than half
of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they develop
more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
They're probably obeying their Medical Professionals. :(
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
2008-11-24 08:35:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Some days things like this happen, and it only goes to prove how unique our
own personal diabetes can be, and how unpredictable at times.
Today I had lunch at one of my favorite "diners"... and I had a grilled
cheeseburger on grilled rye and an order of cole slaw. As I was eating it,
I was thinking - I bet this nails me. TWO slices of REAL bread, and who
knows how much sugar is in the slaw, which was a generous portion. So I
checked when I returned home - about an hour, and was at 98. WHAT? Can
this be? Well, I always peak at two hours, so we'll see. Two hours...
103.
How can this be? I'm happy, and I will do it again, but HOW can this be.
Just when I think I've got it all figured out, I have a surprise, and in
this case, a great one!
At the same time, at the table beside ours, sat a couple, probably early
60's, and I couldn't help but hear parts of their conversation, which was
about his diabetes and finding diabetic shoes. I also noticed when he left
he was walking in diabetic sandals... and folks, we have 8 inches of snow on
the ground right now, so I can comfortably assume he was having some SERIOUS
foot problems.
Now for the killer... I also noticed what he had for lunch. Read chicken
fingers, the kind with lots of breading, and onion rings, and cole slaw, and
get this... a LARGE banana milk shake, special made just for him as banana
is not usually on their menu, but they had some FRESH bananas.
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can you
be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than half
of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they develop
more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54... you do
the math. I need to quit, and I know it. But I"m SO HOOKED... I also know
that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do it. But
addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing. Continuing to stuff your face
with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my mind!!!! I made up my
mind to eat right, and I've done it without exception for a few months, and
I'll do it for the rest of my life. Easy? Yes really it is. You just DO
IT....
Thoughts anyone?
Better than figuring is weighing ones meals in order to eat less, down
to the right amount, in order to the lose the VAT and possibly receive
the cure for type-2 diabetes:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?

May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as our Messiah,
the Son of Man ...

... by being hungrier:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689?

Hunger is wonderful ! ! !

It's how we know the answer to the question "What does Jesus
want?" (WDJW):

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f43db72a7c5c1da0?

Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/52a3db8576495806?

"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...

... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)

Amen.

Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of
promoting much greater understanding:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360?

Be hungrier, which is truly healthier:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/991d4e30704307e7?

Marana tha

Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <><
--
"... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor
12:3)

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/43acbc5ea248ceee?
a***@nowhere.you.know
2008-11-24 16:33:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my mind!!!! I made up my
mind to eat right, and I've done it without exception for a few months, and
I'll do it for the rest of my life. Easy? Yes really it is. You just DO
IT....
Thoughts anyone?
"Better than figuring is weighing ones meals in order to eat less, down
to the right amount, in order to the lose the VAT and possibly receive
the cure for type-2 diabetes:"

Unresponsive and irrelevant and inaccurate as to content.

Weight loss by calorie restriction is not news. Vat is normal and plays
a normal function when it is within normal ranges. All including the
poster have vat at all times.

There is no cure, only more and less effective ways to sometimes reverse
symptons.

A good clinition would mention that what one eats as well as amount of
calories is important. Also that exercise is vital for a diabetic. It
has been shown to selectively reduce vat even when there is little or no
weight loss.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
2008-11-26 09:11:30 UTC
Permalink
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/298d4d9131be066d?

<><

May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as our Messiah,
the Son of Man ...

... by being hungrier:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689?

Hunger is wonderful ! ! !

It's how we know the answer to the question "What does Jesus
want?" (WDJW):

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f43db72a7c5c1da0?

Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/52a3db8576495806?

"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...

... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)

Amen.

Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of
promoting much greater understanding:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360?

Be hungrier, which is truly healthier:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/991d4e30704307e7?

Marana tha

Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
2008-11-26 20:16:09 UTC
Permalink
How do I figure? Usually by using numbers.
Post by Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/298d4d9131be066d?
<><
May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as our Messiah,
the Son of Man ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689?
Hunger is wonderful ! ! !
It's how we know the answer to the question "What does Jesus
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f43db72a7c5c1da0?
Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/52a3db8576495806?
"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...
... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)
Amen.
Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/991d4e30704307e7?
Marana tha
Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?
marcia
2008-11-26 20:36:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
How do I figure? Usually by using numbers.
Sigh. The *correct* answer is: "on my fingers and toes."
rickh
2008-11-24 18:04:02 UTC
Permalink
snip
Why is this?  How can we be so ignorant?
Okay, I'll admit, I smoke, and have since I was 14, and I'm 54...  you do
the math.  I need to quit, and I know it.  But I"m SO HOOKED...  I also know
that when I REALLY TRULY make up my mind, I'll be able to do it.  But
addiction to a 40 years habit is one thing.  Continuing to stuff your face
with what effectively is POISON just truly blows my mind!!!!
snip
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
Smoking is stuffing your face /rspiratory/circulatory/ nervous sytem
full of poison.
I highly recomend you check out alt. support. stop.smoking for
resources on quitting smoking.
You are right , you have to really truly make up your mind, but once
you have there is a weath of advice & support from those of us who
have been there done that.

Good Luck Rick H
Michelle C
2008-11-24 23:02:43 UTC
Permalink
"Willy" <***@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:hCFVk.4840$***@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
snipped for brevity....
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can you
be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than half
of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they develop
more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
I think the following contribute:
1.) Trusting what the doctor says as the ultimate authority.
2.) General ignorance about health issues (which kind of dovetails with
#2).
3.) Addiction to carbs which in some people is as strong as addiction to
nicotine.

(Btw, I think it's a fallacy that nicotine is equally addictive in people.
I tried smoking back when I was an idiot youngster in high school and wanted
to be in with the in crowd. Never did a damn thing for me. It was easy for
me to stop. Yet, I know this is not true of many people.)
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
Willy
2008-11-26 02:48:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle C
snipped for brevity....
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can
you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
1.) Trusting what the doctor says as the ultimate authority.
2.) General ignorance about health issues (which kind of dovetails with
#2).
3.) Addiction to carbs which in some people is as strong as addiction to
nicotine.
(Btw, I think it's a fallacy that nicotine is equally addictive in people.
I tried smoking back when I was an idiot youngster in high school and
wanted to be in with the in crowd. Never did a damn thing for me. It was
easy for me to stop. Yet, I know this is not true of many people.)
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
I had to admit Michelle, in all my life of 54 years, I've overcome some
addictions, but nothing has EVER had a grip on me like smoking. I hate to
admit, I blush to admit that I'm that weak... but since we're on the
subject.. I had quit last January (used Nicorette) and then found my
diabetes diagnosis to be adequate "logic" to starting smoking again. How
STOOOPID is that! LOl

So I'm now in the process of cutting back so quitting will be a little
easier... which I will do before end of year.

Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to help
the process, and were you successful?

Wes
Peppermint Patootie
2008-11-26 03:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Post by Michelle C
snipped for brevity....
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can
you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
1.) Trusting what the doctor says as the ultimate authority.
2.) General ignorance about health issues (which kind of dovetails with
#2).
3.) Addiction to carbs which in some people is as strong as addiction to
nicotine.
(Btw, I think it's a fallacy that nicotine is equally addictive in people.
I tried smoking back when I was an idiot youngster in high school and
wanted to be in with the in crowd. Never did a damn thing for me. It was
easy for me to stop. Yet, I know this is not true of many people.)
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
I had to admit Michelle, in all my life of 54 years, I've overcome some
addictions, but nothing has EVER had a grip on me like smoking. I hate to
admit, I blush to admit that I'm that weak... but since we're on the
subject.. I had quit last January (used Nicorette) and then found my
diabetes diagnosis to be adequate "logic" to starting smoking again. How
STOOOPID is that! LOl
So I'm now in the process of cutting back so quitting will be a little
easier... which I will do before end of year.
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to help
the process, and were you successful?
Wes
When I quite the most recent time, about 20 years ago, it was by using
the first 3 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.

I was talking to someone the other day who said she knows a recovering
heroin addict who says that nicotine is more addictive than heroin. No
wonder I still crave a cigarette from time to time even after two
decades!

PP
Willy
2008-11-26 03:34:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peppermint Patootie
Post by Willy
Post by Michelle C
snipped for brevity....
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can
you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
1.) Trusting what the doctor says as the ultimate authority.
2.) General ignorance about health issues (which kind of dovetails with
#2).
3.) Addiction to carbs which in some people is as strong as addiction to
nicotine.
(Btw, I think it's a fallacy that nicotine is equally addictive in people.
I tried smoking back when I was an idiot youngster in high school and
wanted to be in with the in crowd. Never did a damn thing for me. It was
easy for me to stop. Yet, I know this is not true of many people.)
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
I had to admit Michelle, in all my life of 54 years, I've overcome some
addictions, but nothing has EVER had a grip on me like smoking. I hate to
admit, I blush to admit that I'm that weak... but since we're on the
subject.. I had quit last January (used Nicorette) and then found my
diabetes diagnosis to be adequate "logic" to starting smoking again. How
STOOOPID is that! LOl
So I'm now in the process of cutting back so quitting will be a little
easier... which I will do before end of year.
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to help
the process, and were you successful?
Wes
When I quite the most recent time, about 20 years ago, it was by using
the first 3 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
I was talking to someone the other day who said she knows a recovering
heroin addict who says that nicotine is more addictive than heroin. No
wonder I still crave a cigarette from time to time even after two
decades!
PP
You know, it isn't the addiction. Let's face it, that lasts about 3 days.
So it isn't the "quitting"... it's the "staying quit" that licks me every
time. I can quit for several weeks, but I never stop craving... not the
nicotine craving, just the constant desire to smoke that is overwhelming at
times. I have several friends that quit with hypnosis... I'm seriously
considering it, as I 'm convinced it's my BRAIN and my habits etc... that
keep me locked into this incredible desire. Not to mention that I love
everything about it. I make my own, blend my own tobacco and fill my own
tubes.... GOT TO STOP!

Wes
Alan S
2008-11-26 11:10:15 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:34:32 -0500, "Willy"
Post by Willy
You know, it isn't the addiction. Let's face it, that lasts about 3 days.
So it isn't the "quitting"... it's the "staying quit" that licks me every
time. I can quit for several weeks, but I never stop craving... not the
nicotine craving, just the constant desire to smoke that is overwhelming at
times. I have several friends that quit with hypnosis... I'm seriously
considering it, as I 'm convinced it's my BRAIN and my habits etc... that
keep me locked into this incredible desire. Not to mention that I love
everything about it. I make my own, blend my own tobacco and fill my own
tubes.... GOT TO STOP!
Wes
That was something that I had no problem with the final time
I quit. After about a month I lost the desire and it has
never returned.

A comment made by a doctor and speaker (John Tickell,
interesting but a bit high-carb) at one of his seminars
stuck in my mind from years before. Since then I can't stop
it appearing in my mind every time I see a professional
person smoking. I saw the golfer, John Daly, on our TV
tonight. He is here for our Masters. Grossly overweight and
puffing away on the first tee. I couldn't stop it - there
was that thought in my brain instantly:

"It is impossible to smoke and look intelligent at the same
time".

He might win the Masters - if he stays alive until the 72nd
hole.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 2000 mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com (Analysis of a Day's Meals)
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Two Indian Hotels: to Sleep, Perchance...)
Willy
2008-12-02 19:53:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan S
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:34:32 -0500, "Willy"
Post by Willy
You know, it isn't the addiction. Let's face it, that lasts about 3 days.
So it isn't the "quitting"... it's the "staying quit" that licks me every
time. I can quit for several weeks, but I never stop craving... not the
nicotine craving, just the constant desire to smoke that is overwhelming at
times. I have several friends that quit with hypnosis... I'm seriously
considering it, as I 'm convinced it's my BRAIN and my habits etc... that
keep me locked into this incredible desire. Not to mention that I love
everything about it. I make my own, blend my own tobacco and fill my own
tubes.... GOT TO STOP!
Wes
That was something that I had no problem with the final time
I quit. After about a month I lost the desire and it has
never returned.
A comment made by a doctor and speaker (John Tickell,
interesting but a bit high-carb) at one of his seminars
stuck in my mind from years before. Since then I can't stop
it appearing in my mind every time I see a professional
person smoking. I saw the golfer, John Daly, on our TV
tonight. He is here for our Masters. Grossly overweight and
puffing away on the first tee. I couldn't stop it - there
"It is impossible to smoke and look intelligent at the same
time".
He might win the Masters - if he stays alive until the 72nd
hole.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 2000 mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com (Analysis of a Day's Meals)
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Two Indian Hotels: to Sleep,
Perchance...)
I like that Alan... I've had similar thoughts myself. It's interesting that
in US, the states with the HIGHEST percentage of smokers are also generally
the states with the lowest levels of income, and thus education.

And what gripes my butt is that I am a successful person ... been in the
same field of business my whole life, reasonably well educated and I KNOW
BETTER... but with all that said.... I still smoke! Damn it!

Wes
Màck©®
2008-12-02 23:07:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Post by Alan S
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:34:32 -0500, "Willy"
Post by Willy
You know, it isn't the addiction. Let's face it, that lasts about 3 days.
So it isn't the "quitting"... it's the "staying quit" that licks me every
time. I can quit for several weeks, but I never stop craving... not the
nicotine craving, just the constant desire to smoke that is overwhelming at
times. I have several friends that quit with hypnosis... I'm seriously
considering it, as I 'm convinced it's my BRAIN and my habits etc... that
keep me locked into this incredible desire. Not to mention that I love
everything about it. I make my own, blend my own tobacco and fill my own
tubes.... GOT TO STOP!
Wes
That was something that I had no problem with the final time
I quit. After about a month I lost the desire and it has
never returned.
A comment made by a doctor and speaker (John Tickell,
interesting but a bit high-carb) at one of his seminars
stuck in my mind from years before. Since then I can't stop
it appearing in my mind every time I see a professional
person smoking. I saw the golfer, John Daly, on our TV
tonight. He is here for our Masters. Grossly overweight and
puffing away on the first tee. I couldn't stop it - there
"It is impossible to smoke and look intelligent at the same
time".
He might win the Masters - if he stays alive until the 72nd
hole.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 2000 mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com (Analysis of a Day's Meals)
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Two Indian Hotels: to Sleep,
Perchance...)
I like that Alan... I've had similar thoughts myself. It's interesting that
in US, the states with the HIGHEST percentage of smokers are also generally
the states with the lowest levels of income, and thus education.
And what gripes my butt is that I am a successful person ... been in the
same field of business my whole life, reasonably well educated and I KNOW
BETTER... but with all that said.... I still smoke! Damn it!
Wes
addiction does not care how educated you are or how wealthy you are,
although those in recovery have found that wealth and education can
often be detrimental to recovery from addiction.
--
Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
....Bilbo Baggins


DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.
Nicky
2008-11-26 12:30:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
You know, it isn't the addiction. Let's face it, that lasts about 3 days.
So it isn't the "quitting"... it's the "staying quit" that licks me every
time. I can quit for several weeks, but I never stop craving... not the
nicotine craving, just the constant desire to smoke that is overwhelming at
times. I have several friends that quit with hypnosis... I'm seriously
considering it, as I 'm convinced it's my BRAIN and my habits etc... that
keep me locked into this incredible desire. Not to mention that I love
everything about it. I make my own, blend my own tobacco and fill my own
tubes.... GOT TO STOP!
Maybe the first step would be to make your experience less
pleasurable? Buy a pre-blend that you think is OK rather than good,
for instance?

As to the headology - Allen Carr did it for me.

Nicky (stopped in 2000, now free of the urge for some time)
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
W. Baker
2008-11-26 14:08:40 UTC
Permalink
Nicky <***@btconnect.com> wrote:
: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:34:32 -0500, "Willy" <***@prodigy.net> wrote:

: >You know, it isn't the addiction. Let's face it, that lasts about 3 days.
: >So it isn't the "quitting"... it's the "staying quit" that licks me every
: >time. I can quit for several weeks, but I never stop craving... not the
: >nicotine craving, just the constant desire to smoke that is overwhelming at
: >times. I have several friends that quit with hypnosis... I'm seriously
: >considering it, as I 'm convinced it's my BRAIN and my habits etc... that
: >keep me locked into this incredible desire. Not to mention that I love
: >everything about it. I make my own, blend my own tobacco and fill my own
: >tubes.... GOT TO STOP!

: Maybe the first step would be to make your experience less
: pleasurable? Buy a pre-blend that you think is OK rather than good,
: for instance?

: As to the headology - Allen Carr did it for me.

: Nicky (stopped in 2000, now free of the urge for some time)

I agree with Nicky here. also, find some oher hand activity to relplace
the phsical acts incolved in maakingthe cigarettes and smoking. I took
up rochet ad then needlepoint which kept my hands busy. I also managed to
make 2 bedspreads forthe boys' bunk beds, matching vests fo r my husbnd
and both boys, a 64 square rose es bedspread for my mother(I still have
and use that in my summer ome) and severa lneedlepont pillows, etc that
designed myself. A great deal of the quitting problem is missing all
the fussing involved with the smokeing.

So far, 37 years without a cigarete and I went from 2 packs a day to
none-cold turkey. What got me was not causing damage to my 2 small boys.
It worked for me.

Wendy
Willy
2008-12-02 19:53:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nicky
Post by Willy
You know, it isn't the addiction. Let's face it, that lasts about 3 days.
So it isn't the "quitting"... it's the "staying quit" that licks me every
time. I can quit for several weeks, but I never stop craving... not the
nicotine craving, just the constant desire to smoke that is overwhelming at
times. I have several friends that quit with hypnosis... I'm seriously
considering it, as I 'm convinced it's my BRAIN and my habits etc... that
keep me locked into this incredible desire. Not to mention that I love
everything about it. I make my own, blend my own tobacco and fill my own
tubes.... GOT TO STOP!
Maybe the first step would be to make your experience less
pleasurable? Buy a pre-blend that you think is OK rather than good,
for instance?
As to the headology - Allen Carr did it for me.
Nicky (stopped in 2000, now free of the urge for some time)
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
Allen Carr? Not familiar - so fill me in.

Wes
Nicky
2008-12-02 21:48:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Post by Nicky
As to the headology - Allen Carr did it for me.
Allen Carr? Not familiar - so fill me in.
http://www.allencarrusa.com/

I found the book in a second-hand box, read it on the way home, and
had decided to stop smoking about 3 chapters in.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
Willy
2008-12-04 00:55:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nicky
Post by Willy
Post by Nicky
As to the headology - Allen Carr did it for me.
Allen Carr? Not familiar - so fill me in.
http://www.allencarrusa.com/
I found the book in a second-hand box, read it on the way home, and
had decided to stop smoking about 3 chapters in.
Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
Thanks Nicky.

Wes

Peppermint Patootie
2008-11-26 17:44:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Post by Peppermint Patootie
Post by Willy
Post by Michelle C
snipped for brevity....
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can
you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
1.) Trusting what the doctor says as the ultimate authority.
2.) General ignorance about health issues (which kind of dovetails with
#2).
3.) Addiction to carbs which in some people is as strong as addiction to
nicotine.
(Btw, I think it's a fallacy that nicotine is equally addictive in people.
I tried smoking back when I was an idiot youngster in high school and
wanted to be in with the in crowd. Never did a damn thing for me. It was
easy for me to stop. Yet, I know this is not true of many people.)
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
I had to admit Michelle, in all my life of 54 years, I've overcome some
addictions, but nothing has EVER had a grip on me like smoking. I hate to
admit, I blush to admit that I'm that weak... but since we're on the
subject.. I had quit last January (used Nicorette) and then found my
diabetes diagnosis to be adequate "logic" to starting smoking again. How
STOOOPID is that! LOl
So I'm now in the process of cutting back so quitting will be a little
easier... which I will do before end of year.
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to help
the process, and were you successful?
Wes
When I quite the most recent time, about 20 years ago, it was by using
the first 3 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
I was talking to someone the other day who said she knows a recovering
heroin addict who says that nicotine is more addictive than heroin. No
wonder I still crave a cigarette from time to time even after two
decades!
PP
You know, it isn't the addiction. Let's face it, that lasts about 3 days.
So it isn't the "quitting"... it's the "staying quit" that licks me every
time. I can quit for several weeks, but I never stop craving... not the
nicotine craving, just the constant desire to smoke that is overwhelming at
times.
Uh, how do you figure that's not addiction?
Post by Willy
I have several friends that quit with hypnosis... I'm seriously
considering it, as I 'm convinced it's my BRAIN and my habits etc... that
keep me locked into this incredible desire. Not to mention that I love
everything about it. I make my own, blend my own tobacco and fill my own
tubes.... GOT TO STOP!
Wes
Willy
2008-12-01 15:44:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peppermint Patootie
Post by Willy
Post by Peppermint Patootie
Post by Willy
Post by Michelle C
snipped for brevity....
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry,
but
I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can
you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
1.) Trusting what the doctor says as the ultimate authority.
2.) General ignorance about health issues (which kind of dovetails with
#2).
3.) Addiction to carbs which in some people is as strong as
addiction
to
nicotine.
(Btw, I think it's a fallacy that nicotine is equally addictive in people.
I tried smoking back when I was an idiot youngster in high school and
wanted to be in with the in crowd. Never did a damn thing for me.
It
was
easy for me to stop. Yet, I know this is not true of many people.)
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
I had to admit Michelle, in all my life of 54 years, I've overcome some
addictions, but nothing has EVER had a grip on me like smoking. I
hate
to
admit, I blush to admit that I'm that weak... but since we're on the
subject.. I had quit last January (used Nicorette) and then found my
diabetes diagnosis to be adequate "logic" to starting smoking again.
How
STOOOPID is that! LOl
So I'm now in the process of cutting back so quitting will be a little
easier... which I will do before end of year.
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills)
to
help
the process, and were you successful?
Wes
When I quite the most recent time, about 20 years ago, it was by using
the first 3 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
I was talking to someone the other day who said she knows a recovering
heroin addict who says that nicotine is more addictive than heroin. No
wonder I still crave a cigarette from time to time even after two
decades!
PP
You know, it isn't the addiction. Let's face it, that lasts about 3 days.
So it isn't the "quitting"... it's the "staying quit" that licks me every
time. I can quit for several weeks, but I never stop craving... not the
nicotine craving, just the constant desire to smoke that is overwhelming at
times.
Uh, how do you figure that's not addiction?
Post by Willy
I have several friends that quit with hypnosis... I'm seriously
considering it, as I 'm convinced it's my BRAIN and my habits etc...
that
keep me locked into this incredible desire. Not to mention that I love
everything about it. I make my own, blend my own tobacco and fill my own
tubes.... GOT TO STOP!
Wes
It is addiction - I'm not saying it isn't. What I am saying is that it's
not really physical addiction - that last 3-4 days, and I'm convinced the
remainder is all in the brain.

Wes
Chris Malcolm
2008-11-27 03:40:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peppermint Patootie
I was talking to someone the other day who said she knows a recovering
heroin addict who says that nicotine is more addictive than heroin. No
wonder I still crave a cigarette from time to time even after two
decades!
I found that occasional craving finally went away in the third decade.
--
Chris Malcolm
Cheri
2008-11-26 03:45:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to
help the process, and were you successful?
Wes
Ask your doctor about Chantix. You will be amazed at how quickly it works on
the nicotine addiction, the *habit* is the thing that needs to be guarded
against at about 30 days to six weeks. I wish you the best with the quitting
Wes, also the stop smoking support group has a lot of nice people that will
cheer you on, and offer you tips.

Cheri
High Miles
2008-11-26 04:03:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheri
Post by Willy
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills)
to help the process, and were you successful?
Wes
Ask your doctor about Chantix. You will be amazed at how quickly it
works on the nicotine addiction, the *habit* is the thing that needs to
be guarded against at about 30 days to six weeks. I wish you the best
with the quitting Wes, also the stop smoking support group has a lot of
nice people that will cheer you on, and offer you tips.
Cheri
Chantix can be deadly.
Best to check out the down side of that drug before accepting it.

http://nymag.com/news/features/43892/

http://www.drugs.com/chantix.html

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01788.html

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/05/30/as-bad-news-mounts-chantix-prescriptions-crumble/
Susan
2008-11-26 14:32:32 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by High Miles
Chantix can be deadly.
Best to check out the down side of that drug before accepting it.
http://nymag.com/news/features/43892/
http://www.drugs.com/chantix.html
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01788.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/05/30/as-bad-news-mounts-chantix-prescriptions-crumble/
My husband used Xyban (Wellbutrin XR) years ago, starting two weeks
before quitting. He had bad skin reaction to the patches, and bad
dreams, but he managed to quit and said the Xyban helped. I don't know
anyone who's been able to stay on Chantix, due to the mood and dream
stuff alone.

My husband's more recent success (smoke free but for a one week slip for
a year and a half now) came with substituting intense exercise and
nicotine gum for a faster hit and something to do with his mouth when he
gets the nicotine urge. He still uses the gum, though has cut the
dosage in half in recent months, and the frequency of use. I don't care
if he ever gets off the gum, but he seems to be doing a natural, slow taper.

Susan
High Miles
2008-11-26 19:57:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Post by High Miles
Chantix can be deadly.
Best to check out the down side of that drug before accepting it.
http://nymag.com/news/features/43892/
http://www.drugs.com/chantix.html
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01788.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/05/30/as-bad-news-mounts-chantix-prescriptions-crumble/
My husband used Xyban (Wellbutrin XR) years ago, starting two weeks
before quitting. He had bad skin reaction to the patches, and bad
dreams, but he managed to quit and said the Xyban helped. I don't know
anyone who's been able to stay on Chantix, due to the mood and dream
stuff alone.
My husband's more recent success (smoke free but for a one week slip for
a year and a half now) came with substituting intense exercise and
nicotine gum for a faster hit and something to do with his mouth when he
gets the nicotine urge. He still uses the gum, though has cut the
dosage in half in recent months, and the frequency of use. I don't care
if he ever gets off the gum, but he seems to be doing a natural, slow taper.
Susan
Adding vigorous exercise is good for a lot of problems, from obesity to
depression.
It's not just taking your mind off the subject either.
It's those.............................endorphins.
The reward from them can exceed the other sources.
Cheri
2008-11-26 17:29:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by High Miles
Post by Cheri
Post by Willy
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to
help the process, and were you successful?
Wes
Ask your doctor about Chantix. You will be amazed at how quickly it works
on the nicotine addiction, the *habit* is the thing that needs to be
guarded against at about 30 days to six weeks. I wish you the best with
the quitting Wes, also the stop smoking support group has a lot of nice
people that will cheer you on, and offer you tips.
Cheri
Chantix can be deadly.
Best to check out the down side of that drug before accepting it.
Any drug can be deadly, but I used it for only 4 weeks. Unfortunately,
though the nicotine craving left immediately since it works on the pleasure
part of the brain, the habit is another thing entirely. At any rate, I
didn't kill myself while using it, though they do say that suicidal thoughts
can be a problem with it, as well as vivid dreams. I had neither, but it did
seem to make me hyper.

Cheri
Trinkwasser
2008-11-26 21:08:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by High Miles
Post by Cheri
Post by Willy
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills)
to help the process, and were you successful?
Wes
Ask your doctor about Chantix. You will be amazed at how quickly it
works on the nicotine addiction, the *habit* is the thing that needs to
be guarded against at about 30 days to six weeks. I wish you the best
with the quitting Wes, also the stop smoking support group has a lot of
nice people that will cheer you on, and offer you tips.
Cheri
Chantix can be deadly.
Best to check out the down side of that drug before accepting it.
http://nymag.com/news/features/43892/
http://www.drugs.com/chantix.html
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01788.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/05/30/as-bad-news-mounts-chantix-prescriptions-crumble/
On the ADA forum there have been a few reports of it inducing diabetes
also.
High Miles
2008-11-26 21:35:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by High Miles
Post by Cheri
Post by Willy
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills)
to help the process, and were you successful?
Wes
Ask your doctor about Chantix. You will be amazed at how quickly it
works on the nicotine addiction, the *habit* is the thing that needs to
be guarded against at about 30 days to six weeks. I wish you the best
with the quitting Wes, also the stop smoking support group has a lot of
nice people that will cheer you on, and offer you tips.
Cheri
Chantix can be deadly.
Best to check out the down side of that drug before accepting it.
http://nymag.com/news/features/43892/
http://www.drugs.com/chantix.html
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01788.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/05/30/as-bad-news-mounts-chantix-prescriptions-crumble/
On the ADA forum there have been a few reports of it inducing diabetes also.
Whoooooooooo what a trade off that would be.
BlueBrooke
2008-11-26 19:02:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to
help the process, and were you successful?
Wes
"Easy Way To Stop Smoking" by Alan Carr. Less than half the cost of a
carton of cigs and no nasty side-effects -- unless you read it in dim
light or drop it on your foot. :-)
Nicky
2008-11-26 21:36:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by BlueBrooke
Post by Willy
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to
help the process, and were you successful?
Wes
"Easy Way To Stop Smoking" by Alan Carr. Less than half the cost of a
carton of cigs and no nasty side-effects -- unless you read it in dim
light or drop it on your foot. :-)
I had to buy 3 copies - people kept "borrowing" it...

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
High Miles
2008-11-26 03:54:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
I had to admit Michelle, in all my life of 54 years, I've overcome some
addictions, but nothing has EVER had a grip on me like smoking. I hate
to admit, I blush to admit that I'm that weak... but since we're on the
subject.. I had quit last January (used Nicorette) and then found my
diabetes diagnosis to be adequate "logic" to starting smoking again.
How STOOOPID is that! LOl
So I'm now in the process of cutting back so quitting will be a little
easier... which I will do before end of year.
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to
help the process, and were you successful?
Wes
Everyone I know has used the Patch, and quit with no pain or struggles.
My daughter put one on each morning after her shower, and one the
sixth day, she forgot it. Never needed another and never wanted
another smoke either.

Dorothy
Willy
2008-12-02 19:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by High Miles
Post by Willy
I had to admit Michelle, in all my life of 54 years, I've overcome some
addictions, but nothing has EVER had a grip on me like smoking. I hate
to admit, I blush to admit that I'm that weak... but since we're on the
subject.. I had quit last January (used Nicorette) and then found my
diabetes diagnosis to be adequate "logic" to starting smoking again. How
STOOOPID is that! LOl
So I'm now in the process of cutting back so quitting will be a little
easier... which I will do before end of year.
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to
help the process, and were you successful?
Wes
Everyone I know has used the Patch, and quit with no pain or struggles.
My daughter put one on each morning after her shower, and one the
sixth day, she forgot it. Never needed another and never wanted
another smoke either.
Dorothy
My problem with the patch, besides the bad dreams, but I can get through
that, was that it made my elbow joints and shoulders HURT like crazy... It
got to the point that it hurt to drive the car (which I do around 50K a
year)... so I switched to Nicorette and used that for a couple of weeks -
before I started smoking again on my recent attempt (Dec 07).

Wes
High Miles
2008-12-02 22:54:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
My problem with the patch, besides the bad dreams, but I can get through
that, was that it made my elbow joints and shoulders HURT like crazy...
It got to the point that it hurt to drive the car (which I do around 50K
a year)... so I switched to Nicorette and used that for a couple of
weeks - before I started smoking again on my recent attempt (Dec 07).
Wes
Wow - that's too bad.
Guess the folks I know were just lucky. No bad effects at all.
But then, none of them needed the patches for more than two weeks.
That may make a diff.


D
Alan S
2008-11-26 11:01:45 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:48:00 -0500, "Willy"
Post by Willy
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to help
the process, and were you successful?
Wes
I tried every other possible method until I finally
succeeded with Zyban.

It has possible side effects, but I didn't need to complete
the full course before I had quit, so I stopped the med too
and had no side effects.

What follows is a copy of an old post of mine from 2006,
some of the links may not work now, but I think you'll get
the drift:

http://tinyurl.com/5fkfzz
I first posted this a while back, but we've had a lot of
newbies and I notice smoking is being discussed again.

As an ex-heavily-addicted smoker, I know how hard it was to
give up. Usually, scare stories only provide partial help -
but I'll pass these on anyway. Because I don't want to hear
from anyone, anywhere, claiming that smokes aren't harmful
to a diabetic.

Just do a simple google scholar search on those two words
"smoking+diabetes". This is a small sample of the 51,000+
hits.

Just one small snippet among many:

"Particularly, survival of smokers with diabetes on
hemodialysis is abysmal."

A previous poster, Annette, added a lot more info on the
evil weed in her reply to the original post - you'll find
that at http://tinyurl.com/hdnml

For the sake of those who love you (even if that's only
you), quit.

Cheers, Alan

Just a few references:

Cigarette smoking and health. American Thoracic Society
http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/153/2/861
Cigarette smoking remains the primary cause of preventable
death and morbidity in the United States.
--------------
Preventing cardiovascular events in patients with diabetes
mellitus.
Abraham WT.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&...
Smoking is known to be particularly dangerous for those with
diabetes, and it is important for health care providers to
help their patients stop smoking.
-------------------
Effects of smoking on systemic and intrarenal hemodynamics:
influence on renal function.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&...
The mechanisms of smoking-induced renal damage are only
partly understood and comprise acute hemodynamic (e.g.,
increase in BP and presumably intraglomerular pressure) and
chronic effects (e.g., endothelial cell dysfunction). Renal
failure per se leads to an increased cardiovascular risk.
The latter is further aggravated by smoking. Particularly,
survival of smokers with diabetes on hemodialysis is
abysmal.
----------------
Effects of cigarette smoking, diabetes, high cholesterol,
and hypertension on all-cause mortality and cardiovascular
disease mortality in Mexican Americans. The San Antonio
Heart Study
http://www.aje.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/144/11/1058
After adjustment for sex, age, and socioeconomic status in
multivariate analyses, current smoking, diabetes, high
cholesterol, and hypertension were positively associated
with all-cause mortality and cardiovascular disease
mortality in Mexican Americans. Overall, these risk factors
accounted for 45% of all-cause mortality and 55% of
cardiovascular disease mortality in this ethnic group.
----------------
Smoking, diabetes and hyperlipidaemia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&...
Mikhailidis DP, Papadakis JA, Ganotakis ES.
Department of Chemical Pathology & Human Metabolism, Royal
Free Hospital & School of Medicine, Univ. of London, United
Kingdom.
The epidemiological evidence linking smoking with insulin
resistance is considerable. This evidence is even more
convincing because there is a dose response relationship
between smoking and the risk of non-insulin dependent
diabetes (NIDDM). Similarly, there is a time-dependent
decrease in risk of NIDDM for those who quit smoking.
Insulin resistance (in the form of impaired glucose
tolerance, IGT) may precede the development of NIDDM. There
is a biochemical basis for the smoking-IGT/NIDDM
relationship. Smoking increases the risk of developing
diabetic complications like nephropathy, neuropathy and
retinopathy Smoking is also an independent risk factor for
myocardial infarction and all-cause mortality in NIDDM.
Smokers are both insulin resistant and lipid intolerant.
--------------
Smoking and diabetes
D Haire-Joshu, RE Glasgow and TL Tibbs
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/22/11/1887
There are consistent results from both cross-sectional and
prospective studies showing enhanced risk for micro- and
macrovascular disease, as well as premature mortality from
the combination of smoking and diabetes.
------------------
Smoking is associated with progression of diabetic
nephropathy
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/17/2/126
RESULTS--Progression of nephropathy was less common in
nonsmokers (11%) than in smokers (53%) and patients who had
quit smoking (33%), P < 0.001. In a stepwise logistic
regression analysis, cigarette pack years, 24-h sodium
excretion, and GHb were independent predictive factors for
the progression of diabetic nephropathy.
-------------------
The Effects of a Smoking Cessation Intervention on 14.5-Year
Mortality
http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/abstract/142/4/233?maxtoshow=&HITS=...
or http://tinyurl.com/66oey
Intervention: The intervention was a 10-week smoking
cessation program that included a strong physician message
and 12 group sessions using behavior modification and
nicotine gum, plus either ipratropium or a placebo inhaler.
Results: At 5 years, 21.7% of special intervention
participants had stopped smoking since study entry compared
with 5.4% of usual care participants. After up to 14.5 years
of follow-up, 731 patients died: 33% of lung cancer, 22% of
cardiovascular disease, 7.8% of respiratory disease other
than cancer, and 2.3% of unknown causes. All-cause mortality
was significantly lower in the special intervention group
than in the usual care group (8.83 per 1000 person-years vs.
10.38 per 1000 person-years; P = 0.03). The hazard ratio for
mortality in the usual care group compared with the special
intervention group was 1.18 (95% CI, 1.02 to 1.37).
Differences in death rates for both lung cancer and
cardiovascular disease were greater when death rates were
analyzed by smoking habit.
-----------------
Getting to Goal in Type 2 Diabetes: Role of Postprandial
Glycemic Control
http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/3036_pnt
Slide 9. MRFIT: Impact of Diabetes on CVD Mortality
These are data from the Multiple Risk Factor Intervention
Trial (MRFIT) study, where people with and without diabetes
were classified as having: no risk factors at all, only 1
risk factor, 2 risk factors, or all 3 risk factors. Risk
factors were hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and smoking. For
any given number of risk factors, the chances of getting
cardiovascular disease are markedly increased in people with
type 2 diabetes. This increased risk is related to
hyperglycemia.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 2000 mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com (Analysis of a Day's Meals)
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Two Indian Hotels: to Sleep, Perchance...)
Willy
2008-12-02 19:59:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan S
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:48:00 -0500, "Willy"
Post by Willy
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to help
the process, and were you successful?
Wes
I tried every other possible method until I finally
succeeded with Zyban.
It has possible side effects, but I didn't need to complete
the full course before I had quit, so I stopped the med too
and had no side effects.
What follows is a copy of an old post of mine from 2006,
some of the links may not work now, but I think you'll get
http://tinyurl.com/5fkfzz
I first posted this a while back, but we've had a lot of
newbies and I notice smoking is being discussed again.
As an ex-heavily-addicted smoker, I know how hard it was to
give up. Usually, scare stories only provide partial help -
but I'll pass these on anyway. Because I don't want to hear
from anyone, anywhere, claiming that smokes aren't harmful
to a diabetic.
Just do a simple google scholar search on those two words
"smoking+diabetes". This is a small sample of the 51,000+
hits.
"Particularly, survival of smokers with diabetes on
hemodialysis is abysmal."
A previous poster, Annette, added a lot more info on the
evil weed in her reply to the original post - you'll find
that at http://tinyurl.com/hdnml
For the sake of those who love you (even if that's only
you), quit.
Cheers, Alan
Cigarette smoking and health. American Thoracic Society
http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/153/2/861
Cigarette smoking remains the primary cause of preventable
death and morbidity in the United States.
--------------
Preventing cardiovascular events in patients with diabetes
mellitus.
Abraham WT.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&...
Smoking is known to be particularly dangerous for those with
diabetes, and it is important for health care providers to
help their patients stop smoking.
-------------------
influence on renal function.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&...
The mechanisms of smoking-induced renal damage are only
partly understood and comprise acute hemodynamic (e.g.,
increase in BP and presumably intraglomerular pressure) and
chronic effects (e.g., endothelial cell dysfunction). Renal
failure per se leads to an increased cardiovascular risk.
The latter is further aggravated by smoking. Particularly,
survival of smokers with diabetes on hemodialysis is
abysmal.
----------------
Effects of cigarette smoking, diabetes, high cholesterol,
and hypertension on all-cause mortality and cardiovascular
disease mortality in Mexican Americans. The San Antonio
Heart Study
http://www.aje.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/144/11/1058
After adjustment for sex, age, and socioeconomic status in
multivariate analyses, current smoking, diabetes, high
cholesterol, and hypertension were positively associated
with all-cause mortality and cardiovascular disease
mortality in Mexican Americans. Overall, these risk factors
accounted for 45% of all-cause mortality and 55% of
cardiovascular disease mortality in this ethnic group.
----------------
Smoking, diabetes and hyperlipidaemia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&...
Mikhailidis DP, Papadakis JA, Ganotakis ES.
Department of Chemical Pathology & Human Metabolism, Royal
Free Hospital & School of Medicine, Univ. of London, United
Kingdom.
The epidemiological evidence linking smoking with insulin
resistance is considerable. This evidence is even more
convincing because there is a dose response relationship
between smoking and the risk of non-insulin dependent
diabetes (NIDDM). Similarly, there is a time-dependent
decrease in risk of NIDDM for those who quit smoking.
Insulin resistance (in the form of impaired glucose
tolerance, IGT) may precede the development of NIDDM. There
is a biochemical basis for the smoking-IGT/NIDDM
relationship. Smoking increases the risk of developing
diabetic complications like nephropathy, neuropathy and
retinopathy Smoking is also an independent risk factor for
myocardial infarction and all-cause mortality in NIDDM.
Smokers are both insulin resistant and lipid intolerant.
--------------
Smoking and diabetes
D Haire-Joshu, RE Glasgow and TL Tibbs
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/22/11/1887
There are consistent results from both cross-sectional and
prospective studies showing enhanced risk for micro- and
macrovascular disease, as well as premature mortality from
the combination of smoking and diabetes.
------------------
Smoking is associated with progression of diabetic
nephropathy
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/17/2/126
RESULTS--Progression of nephropathy was less common in
nonsmokers (11%) than in smokers (53%) and patients who had
quit smoking (33%), P < 0.001. In a stepwise logistic
regression analysis, cigarette pack years, 24-h sodium
excretion, and GHb were independent predictive factors for
the progression of diabetic nephropathy.
-------------------
The Effects of a Smoking Cessation Intervention on 14.5-Year
Mortality
http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/abstract/142/4/233?maxtoshow=&HITS=...
or http://tinyurl.com/66oey
Intervention: The intervention was a 10-week smoking
cessation program that included a strong physician message
and 12 group sessions using behavior modification and
nicotine gum, plus either ipratropium or a placebo inhaler.
Results: At 5 years, 21.7% of special intervention
participants had stopped smoking since study entry compared
with 5.4% of usual care participants. After up to 14.5 years
of follow-up, 731 patients died: 33% of lung cancer, 22% of
cardiovascular disease, 7.8% of respiratory disease other
than cancer, and 2.3% of unknown causes. All-cause mortality
was significantly lower in the special intervention group
than in the usual care group (8.83 per 1000 person-years vs.
10.38 per 1000 person-years; P = 0.03). The hazard ratio for
mortality in the usual care group compared with the special
intervention group was 1.18 (95% CI, 1.02 to 1.37).
Differences in death rates for both lung cancer and
cardiovascular disease were greater when death rates were
analyzed by smoking habit.
-----------------
Getting to Goal in Type 2 Diabetes: Role of Postprandial
Glycemic Control
http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/3036_pnt
Slide 9. MRFIT: Impact of Diabetes on CVD Mortality
These are data from the Multiple Risk Factor Intervention
Trial (MRFIT) study, where people with and without diabetes
were classified as having: no risk factors at all, only 1
risk factor, 2 risk factors, or all 3 risk factors. Risk
factors were hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and smoking. For
any given number of risk factors, the chances of getting
cardiovascular disease are markedly increased in people with
type 2 diabetes. This increased risk is related to
hyperglycemia.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 2000 mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com (Analysis of a Day's Meals)
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Two Indian Hotels: to Sleep,
Perchance...)
Thanks Alan. I've been battling the need to quit for years for several
reasons. One is that my breathing just isn't what it used to be. Secondly
is that I cough as soon as I hit the floor in the morning. Third is that
I'm a singer and musician and participate in a semi-pro group, and it
affects my voice, and lastly (fourth) I KNOW it's not good for me.

At the same time, there are few things about it I don't love... 40 years of
enjoying it, and the ONLY reason I'm going to quit is that I know it's
killing me, and has already done some damage without a doubt.

Appreciate the info.

Wes
Nicky
2008-12-02 21:50:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Thanks Alan. I've been battling the need to quit for years for several
reasons. One is that my breathing just isn't what it used to be. Secondly
is that I cough as soon as I hit the floor in the morning. Third is that
I'm a singer and musician and participate in a semi-pro group, and it
affects my voice, and lastly (fourth) I KNOW it's not good for me.
My breath control has improved by an order of magnitude - and my vocal
range is better and mellower. Was a benefit I wasn't expecting!

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
Michelle C
2008-11-26 16:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
Post by Michelle C
snipped for brevity....
Post by Willy
I told my business partner that was with me - "ya know, I'm sorry, but I
just have NO SYMPATHY AT ALL for his feet problems. How STOOOOPID can
you be??????
I'll never cease to be amazed at how SO MANY, I'd dare say, more than
half of all diabetics I've met CONTINUE to eat wrong, even after they
develop more serious issues.
Why is this? How can we be so ignorant?
Thoughts anyone?
Wes
1.) Trusting what the doctor says as the ultimate authority.
2.) General ignorance about health issues (which kind of dovetails with
#2).
3.) Addiction to carbs which in some people is as strong as addiction to
nicotine.
(Btw, I think it's a fallacy that nicotine is equally addictive in
people. I tried smoking back when I was an idiot youngster in high school
and wanted to be in with the in crowd. Never did a damn thing for me.
It was easy for me to stop. Yet, I know this is not true of many
people.)
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
I had to admit Michelle, in all my life of 54 years, I've overcome some
addictions, but nothing has EVER had a grip on me like smoking. I hate to
admit, I blush to admit that I'm that weak... but since we're on the
subject.. I had quit last January (used Nicorette) and then found my
diabetes diagnosis to be adequate "logic" to starting smoking again. How
STOOOPID is that! LOl
So I'm now in the process of cutting back so quitting will be a little
easier... which I will do before end of year.
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to
help the process, and were you successful?
Wes
Wes,

No, I did need to use anything to stop. My whole smoking experience
probably lasted a mere few weeks before I realized it wasn't doing anything
for me--and my friends were just going to have to deal with it if I wasn't
cool enough for them. ;-)

I don't believe you should regard yourself as weak for having a difficult
time quitting. That implies there is something wrong with you, and there
isn't. Your experience is pretty typical. If it wasn't then there wouldn't
be so many smokers. You get something out of it. Yes, there is the
nicotine (which in some people has anti-depressant qualities), but also all
the habits (rewards) surrounding having a smoke. Very complex. You might
want to look at these all of these factors to see which ones affect you the
most. The meds are designed as a substitute for the affects of the
nicotine--and this may be important for you if in fact the nicotine is
having an anti-depressant effect. However, if it's all about the habits,
that's another ball of wax, and you need to substitute there too.

(While I may not have needed help stopping smoking, I know many smokers who
have--hence my thoughts on the subject.)

Good luck and keep us posted!
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5
Chris Malcolm
2008-11-27 03:37:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy
I had to admit Michelle, in all my life of 54 years, I've overcome some
addictions, but nothing has EVER had a grip on me like smoking. I hate to
admit, I blush to admit that I'm that weak... but since we're on the
subject.. I had quit last January (used Nicorette) and then found my
diabetes diagnosis to be adequate "logic" to starting smoking again. How
STOOOPID is that! LOl
So I'm now in the process of cutting back so quitting will be a little
easier... which I will do before end of year.
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to help
the process, and were you successful?
I eventually found a combination of magic and embarrassment worked for
getting me to quit for good. I took a half smoked packet of cigarettes
and shot several air gun slugs slugs through it. I pinned the
shattered remains to a wall in a very obvious place in the house. When
people asked I said "They were trying to kill me so I shot them".

I would have felt really stupid if I'd ever smoked again after doing
that :-)
--
Chris Malcolm
Nicky
2008-11-27 13:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Malcolm
I eventually found a combination of magic and embarrassment worked for
getting me to quit for good. I took a half smoked packet of cigarettes
and shot several air gun slugs slugs through it. I pinned the
shattered remains to a wall in a very obvious place in the house. When
people asked I said "They were trying to kill me so I shot them".
I would have felt really stupid if I'd ever smoked again after doing
that :-)
LOL - that's some more screen wipes you owe me :P

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
Trinkwasser
2008-11-28 20:16:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Malcolm
Post by Willy
I had to admit Michelle, in all my life of 54 years, I've overcome some
addictions, but nothing has EVER had a grip on me like smoking. I hate to
admit, I blush to admit that I'm that weak... but since we're on the
subject.. I had quit last January (used Nicorette) and then found my
diabetes diagnosis to be adequate "logic" to starting smoking again. How
STOOOPID is that! LOl
So I'm now in the process of cutting back so quitting will be a little
easier... which I will do before end of year.
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to help
the process, and were you successful?
I eventually found a combination of magic and embarrassment worked for
getting me to quit for good. I took a half smoked packet of cigarettes
and shot several air gun slugs slugs through it. I pinned the
shattered remains to a wall in a very obvious place in the house. When
people asked I said "They were trying to kill me so I shot them".
I would have felt really stupid if I'd ever smoked again after doing
that :-)
Excellent!

I think I still have a tobacco tin with a skull and crossbones on. It
worked for the guy who painted it so he gave it to me.
r***@att.net
2008-11-28 21:21:48 UTC
Permalink
My wife and I quit 18 months ago. We quit in three days. I was a three
pack a day smoker for around 30 years. My wife smoke a pack a day for the
same time period. Our doctor prescribed "Chantex" for us. On Friday,
before the first pill, I smoked my usual 3 packs. On Sat. morning I took my
first pill and smoked one pack. On Sunday I took my second pill and smoke 3
cigarettes. That was the last time I have smoked.

We both occasionally get the urge for a cigarette but the urge passes within
seconds.

We are both happy we quit.

Sad news, A friend tried Chantex and had such bad nightmares at night and
during the day she had to quit the drug and is still smoking.

Dick R.

T2
Metformin 2000mg a day
140 units Lantus daily
15 to 20 units Novolog with each meal
Willy
2008-12-01 15:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Malcolm
Post by Willy
I had to admit Michelle, in all my life of 54 years, I've overcome some
addictions, but nothing has EVER had a grip on me like smoking. I hate to
admit, I blush to admit that I'm that weak... but since we're on the
subject.. I had quit last January (used Nicorette) and then found my
diabetes diagnosis to be adequate "logic" to starting smoking again. How
STOOOPID is that! LOl
So I'm now in the process of cutting back so quitting will be a little
easier... which I will do before end of year.
Have any of you ever used any of the prescription medication (pills) to help
the process, and were you successful?
I eventually found a combination of magic and embarrassment worked for
getting me to quit for good. I took a half smoked packet of cigarettes
and shot several air gun slugs slugs through it. I pinned the
shattered remains to a wall in a very obvious place in the house. When
people asked I said "They were trying to kill me so I shot them".
I would have felt really stupid if I'd ever smoked again after doing
that :-)
--
Chris Malcolm
I laugh at the brilliance of this tactic. I too think I'm going to make
quitting a bigger 'event" in front of some family this year when I quit.
Just having the face their "looks" might help motivate during those weak
moments we all encounter!

Wes
Trinkwasser
2008-11-26 21:06:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:02:43 -0800, "Michelle C"
Post by Michelle C
(Btw, I think it's a fallacy that nicotine is equally addictive in people.
I tried smoking back when I was an idiot youngster in high school and wanted
to be in with the in crowd. Never did a damn thing for me. It was easy for
me to stop. Yet, I know this is not true of many people.)
You're not kidding!

Over time I've met a few people who will have an occasional cigarette
or cigar socially and have no desire to smoke in between.

Then I've met a couple of junkies who got off heroin but were totally
incapable of stopping nicotine.
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